The Signet Podcast – Lorna Auerbach Transcript

In this episode, Eduardo Signet speaks with Denver commercial real estate broker, landlord, and investor Stuart Zall, founder of The Zall Company.

The conversation explores how relationships, tenant selection, networking, mentorship, long-term ownership, and neighborhood-building shape success in commercial real estate. Stuart shares lessons from his career in retail leasing, property ownership, Denver development, international projects, and the practical realities of working with landlords, tenants, brokers, contractors, and emerging brands.

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Podcast transcript

SIGNET: Stuart, thank you for coming. I have so much to ask you. I want to introduce you as the broker and landlord in the Denver market, although you do brokerage and properties everywhere, including a deal in China. You have quite a lot of experience. Do you want to say a little bit about yourself or introduce yourself?

STUART ZALL:

I am Stuart Zall, founder of The Zall Company, which I founded in 2000.
I did not grow up expecting to go into real estate, and I did not come from a multigenerational real estate family.
I studied accounting at the University of Denver, got my CPA, and started at Arthur Andersen, but I lasted only about a year.
I moved into real estate almost by accident after helping Steve Gettleman with accounting on a strip center, then being asked to help lease it by calling people from the phone book.
I learned by u201cdialing for dollars,u201d got results, and eventually moved through Lakeside Mall, Taubman, and outlet-mall projects around the country.
Taubman taught me the art of leasing, merchandising, and building tenant relationships across multiple markets.
In 2000, when my firm was bought, I chose to start my own business instead of moving, and the business grew from hired-gun leasing work into a brokerage company.
Along the way, I started buying properties when opportunities came up, often through partnerships, because I believe successful brokers should have some investment exposure to commercial real estate.
I eventually bought the Larimer building where we are now, partly because I needed space for my own company and could lease the rest to another tenant.
Having a storefront and a sign on the street has changed the business because people now drive by, see the company, and call.

SIGNET: It is so interesting. I love this area. I have been here a few times and have been to the restaurants. I did not realize everything was right on this block, like Barcelona, Federales, and other places. It is a cool part of town. How did you know this was going to become that?

STUART ZALL:

Sometimes you get lucky.
A friend from New York, Stephanie Rubenstein, was representing a concept connected to the founder of Lululemon, and they wanted a gritty part of town for a millennial worker-focused concept.
At that time, Larimer Street was very rough; Denver Central Market was not open, and there was very little there besides Ratio Brewery.
My friend saw something in the area that reminded her of Brooklyn, and I trusted her perspective even though I did not fully see it myself at first.
I made it a quest to find a building in that area, and we got what I believe is one of the best blocks on Larimer Street in RiNo.
When I bought the building, I was nervous enough that I did not tell my wife exactly where it was at first.
The area still has city challenges, but the building has worked out extremely well.
My advice is not to overanalyze real estate; sometimes you have to find it, take the risk, and let time work for you.
Real estate is scary because you are putting a lot at risk, but time can become your best friend if you take the chance.

SIGNET: You hit on so many points I want to talk about. Mentorship is one. First, can you talk about your mentors and the values you learned in your training with Taubman? You have also been a mentor for me in Denver, and I have met many people you have mentored who became incredibly successful. What qualities do you look for in people that lead them to success?

STUART ZALL:

I think it starts with heart.
If you have passion for what you do, then it does not feel like work.
You need drive, passion, and the ability to dream.
I think younger people are missing face-to-face communication because so much is done through texting, Instagram, and efficient digital communication.
When I started, even sending someone a picture of a space took days, and that slower process created dialogue and relationship-building.
Today, information can be sent instantly, but the relationship process can be lost.
Networking begins with meeting people and building relationships.
I try to create platforms, such as breakfasts, where people can meet others who may help advance their careers.
If you want to make deals, you need to put yourself where decision-makers are, such as shopping-center conventions and industry events.
You should not only spend time with people you already know; you should try to meet as many people as possible and then follow through.
Many deals begin with a cup of coffee, a handshake, or simply bumping into someone.

SIGNET: I love the idea of networking outside your own category. Developers often network with developers, and brokers often network with brokers. I have looked at finance events and capital groups because you get exposure to different people and make different links. One thing I have heard you say is that you never know where a deal is going to come from, and it is about being there. Is that one of the ideas?

STUART ZALL:

I learned something from doing business in China: if you are in a room where everyone speaks English, you are less valuable, but if you are the one person who speaks a language no one else speaks, you become extremely valuable.
I apply that metaphor to real estate networking.
If I am in a room full of brokers, everyone already understands leasing, so I am less differentiated.
If I am in a room where no one understands what I do, then I may be able to provide something valuable.
I like working with contractors, architects, finance people, and others connected to real estate but not doing the exact same thing.
I see networking as collaboration, where different people can benefit from different parts of the same opportunity.
I try to pay it forward by connecting general contractors or other professionals with people who may help them, without keeping a strict scorecard.
Those relationships often come back in useful ways, even if not immediately.
Mentoring people is not just telling them what to do; it is encouraging them to go out, network, socialize, talk to people, and learn from events.
As an example, I paid to meet Danny Meyer at an event, got a signed book, introduced myself, and created a connection that later became useful.
You cannot build those kinds of connections if you only sit in the audience; sometimes you need to go to the front and introduce yourself.

SIGNET: You talked about win-win situations. One thing you have said before, and I have seen you do, is that you want your tenants, your clients, and the people you represent to win. You have said that after the lease is signed and the commission is done, that is when you start to work by helping promote them, because if they expand, they are going to call you. What do you do after the lease is signed, since they still have so much to do?

STUART ZALL:

You can go too far and become your clientu2019s outsourced administrative staff, so you should not go looking for trouble.
It is still important to check in and help when there are problems.
I try to guide clients toward good people, such as reliable liquor-license attorneys, contractors, or other professionals.
I prefer to give clients two or three strong referrals rather than just one, so they can do their own homework and choose.
My role is to point them toward people who are tried and true, not to make every decision for them.
Most of the help is needed between signing the lease and opening the store.
After opening, I cannot solve every operational problem, such as labor or marketing, but I can pick up the phone and be available.
Signing a lease can be a multimillion-dollar commitment, so I want the tenant to succeed.
I once helped a restaurant franchisee renegotiate terms and work through problems even though I technically represented the landlord.
A lot of salespeople disappear after they get paid, but we want continuity, repeat business, and clients who know we tried to help.
At the core, I see our work as solving problems.

SIGNET: I love the way your brain thinks. You are very creative. Taking a wider-angle point of view, why commercial versus residential? I love commercial, but I am curious why you chose that path.

STUART ZALL:

Triple-net leases are a major reason.
I had experience with residential early on, including buying condos during a period when banks wanted properties off their books.
At one point, I had about 50 condos with a partner.
Residential was more management-intensive, especially before todayu2019s technology made banking and administration easier.
I do not have the patience for residential.
Commercial is more interesting to me because I am fascinated by businesses, retail, and how those businesses operate.
I moved most of my residential holdings into commercial projects over time.
In commercial, if a store does not work out for an operator with many stores, it is usually not as emotionally catastrophic as something going wrong with someoneu2019s home.
Residential deals involve peopleu2019s shelter and can be more personal and stressful.

SIGNET: In commercial real estate, what trends are you looking out for? We have tariffs, the internet has been affecting retail for a while, and there are other forces in the market.

STUART ZALL:

People have probably been worrying about the future of retail and commerce since ancient times.
Humans will always need commerce in one form or another.
There will be AI, headwinds, and other changes, and the key is to keep pivoting.
If you sit back and do nothing, you are going to be dead.
COVID was a major test for restaurants, and the smart operators quickly moved into patio seating, takeout, and alcohol-to-go where allowed.
Apparel is changing because so much can be bought online, but people still shop when traveling or looking for experiences.
Food still has to be made somewhere, even if DoorDash or another service delivers it.
I think ghost kitchens have mostly been a bust because people still need to see, experience, and trust a restaurant.
Food, entertainment, and apparel will remain, but models may change, stores may get smaller, and department stores need to reinvent themselves.

SIGNET: I am loving these public markets you see everywhere. I drove up and down the coast, and places like San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara have public markets. Here there is The Hangar and Edgewater. I love those developments because they have synergy together if they are done well. Colorado Mills may have been an example of that 15 or 20 years ago.

STUART ZALL:

Denver is often a poster child for jumping on trends harder than other cities.
We probably overdid the public market and food hall concept.
Some public markets and food halls are winners, but others do not work.
It is not enough to build a food hall and assume people will show up.
You still have to put real thought into the concept, location, tenant mix, and execution.
Denver Central Market and Edgewater are strong examples.
Some others have gone out of business, which shows the model is not automatically successful.
If the concept is done right, it can work very well.

SIGNET: Your company has come such a long way. I think it is incredible that you started as an accountant, which uses a certain type of brain, and then went into such a relationship-heavy business. What qualities did you bring from accounting into your current work?

STUART ZALL:

I can understand financial statements, accounts receivable, and the basic mechanics of a business.
That is valuable because many brokers do not really understand the business side.
I understand operating properties and mortgages.
At the same time, I outsource almost everything that is not one of my strengths.
I use an outsourced bookkeeper and outsourced graphic arts help.
I know I need to work within my strengths.
Running numbers and detailed accounting work are not where I perform best now, even though the background helps.

SIGNET: I have a personal question that I think applies well to the podcast. Hiring people and managing people is really a talent. There is a reason CEOs sometimes manage managers, and managers manage individuals. How do you develop the skills needed to manage people? If you do not do that right, your business suffers and you reach dead ends.

STUART ZALL:

Managing people is a real challenge.
I believe there may be some force or timing that helps you find what you need when you need it.
About a year ago, I hit a wall because sales were down and I was struggling to motivate the team.
Our leasing meetings were not productive, and people, including me, were distracted.
I realized I needed a coach.
I met Steve Benoit from Crafted Consultants through my son and later sat down with him for coffee.
Steve explained a structured process for working with people, and I decided to try it even though it was not cheap.
He has become a meaningful part of the team.
We now have mandatory Monday meetings, with no cell phones, where each agent reviews what they said they would do and whether they got it done.
We also have one-on-one status updates and KPIs.
One KPI is getting one positive Google review per month from each person, which helps the company cast a wider net.
We now track deals by quarter instead of just doing deals without tracking them.
The coaching and structure have been important to our growth.

SIGNET: I asked that because I am managing a construction project in Pebble Beach right now, and you manage subs and contractors. Many people I have interviewed say their success is due to the people they hire. A lot of it is finding the right people with drive, quality, and pride in workmanship. It is hard to find those people because everyone wants to present themselves that way, but not everyone is that person.

STUART ZALL:

A lot of hiring is trial and error.
We now have an onboarding sheet and an interview sheet that lists what we are looking for.
You can also overanalyze hiring.
Right now, we are at capacity and do not have room for more people unless we build up or expand.
I am willing to take a chance on a lot of people.
Many people in the industry probably got their start with me.
In the past, I may not have had the tools to mentor and coach people properly, so I probably lost some talented people.
If you love what you do, it is not work.
I work in some form seven days a week because I am always available and always thinking about how brokers can be more productive.
I do not only think about their productivity in terms of my own income; I want them to succeed.
People are giving me their time and part of their lives, especially when they are young.
Even if someone only stays with me for a year, two years, or three years, I want them to leave with skills that help them succeed elsewhere.
At Arthur Andersen, many good accountants eventually went to work for clients, and the firm saw that as creating a friend at that company.
I see former employees similarly: if they leave and succeed, the relationship may help both of us later.
I do not expect anyone to give me their entire life, but I want their time with us to be productive.

SIGNET: You said you are at capacity. Where do you want to go from here? What is really good now, and what do you want your legacy to be? That is a two-for-one question, but they are different intentions.

STUART ZALL:

I am having a lot of fun and enjoying what is happening.
We are working on projects with the Orlando Magic, which has been very cool.
I have partners outside my company, including Dan Nelson and Neil Berkowitz, who help expand our bandwidth.
I like the arena and sports district space and see it as an area for future growth.
Many arenas are moving back into central business districts, which creates opportunities around live music, sports, restaurants, retail, and event traffic.
Time is precious for people, so projects that combine sports, entertainment, food, and retail can create strong commercial environments.
We do a lot of leasing downtown, in RiNo, and in Cherry Creek, and I want us to continue being a leader in those markets.
Downtown Denver still has a lot of opportunity, despite lingering perceptions from COVID, crime, and 16th Street Mall disruption.
When you lease space and bring in a store or restaurant, you can change a neighborhood for better or worse.
A lease such as Mendocino Farms in Cherry Creek changes the everyday experience of a neighborhood by adding a useful commerce point.
My legacy is not about ego; it is about improving the city or the commercial playground I work in.
Early in my career, I was focused on getting paid, but over time I came to care more about the type of tenant and whether they improve the neighborhood.
A street full of banks may pay rent, but it does not create the same neighborhood energy as coffee shops, restaurants, and places to shop.
The goal is to help create neighborhoods where people feel commerce, culture, and activity.

SIGNET: The tenants really give a neighborhood its feel u2014 the restaurants, bars, and different spots.

STUART ZALL:

The right tenant mix creates a good environment.
When neighborhoods improve through thoughtful retail and restaurant leasing, everyone benefits.

SIGNET: I was listening to another interview you did, and you said 2010 was a hard year after the Great Recession. How did you survive that, and what advice would you give to other people in future recessions?

STUART ZALL:

Praying is real.
If you have your health, you should not let your stock account or money account consume you.
Do not listen to all the background noise.
I do not watch much news because it can become distracting and negative.
In our business, the recession showed up late because commissions often take six months to a year to come in.
2009 was still fine, but in 2010 nothing was coming in.
I tried to get exposure by writing articles and appearing in trade magazines.
A partner and I wrote an article about repositioning malls, and someone from China called asking whether we could do that work there.
Our default answer was yes, even when we had to figure out how to execute afterward.
We needed demographic and psychographic data in China, which was difficult to get, but a colleague connected us with someone who did data work in Asia and had gone to the University of Denver.
We partnered with him, created a merchandising plan, and the client then asked whether we could lease the project.
The project was in Xiu2019an, which was connected to the Terracotta Warriors and the Silk Road.
I used my U.S. relationships with brands to find the right international contacts and started leasing the project.
I worked between China and Denver, using a Wi-Fi phone line with a Denver number so clients did not know I was overseas.
The project was ultimately scrapped because housing became more lucrative for the developer, but we had been paid in advance.
By the time that project ended, the U.S. economy had improved.
That experience helped us survive and led to work in places such as Puerto Rico and Hawaii.

SIGNET: I do residential in Europe, but it is interesting because that is another market. Even here, RiNo and Cherry Creek feel like different markets because the tenants are different. You deal with a lot of high-end, popular, and trendy tenants.

STUART ZALL:

I would not call most of our work true luxury, like Gucci or Hermu00e8s, because Denver is not a very luxury-heavy market.
We work more with upper-moderate and emerging brands.
That includes brands like Lululemon, North Face, Birkenstock, and other better brands.
I also love working with immigrants because many of them are fearless.
Some people create businesses because they may not have the same access to conventional jobs, and they are willing to take chances.
Those chances sometimes turn into great businesses.
I have worked with clients from one store to very large store counts, and it is rewarding to watch a brand grow.
It is interesting and fun to see a person or brand evolve from one location into something much larger.

SIGNET: That is part of their story. I think you did that with H&M, where you had the first one in Colorado.

STUART ZALL:

We did the first H&M in Colorado.
H&M has withstood the stress of downtown.
We also brought Uniqlo to downtown Denver, although it unfortunately closed during COVID.
Forever 21 was another example.
No brand lasts forever, but if you can get 15 years or more out of a brand, that can still be meaningful.

SIGNET: Thinking about the 16th Street Mall, coming from Los Angeles, what is the secret? In LA, it is very hard to turn around cities, maybe because of bureaucracy or something else. Here, you have the Downtown Denver Partnership and developers working with political bodies. What is the secret to turning around a place like that?

STUART ZALL:

Comparing Los Angeles and Denver is difficult because Los Angeles County is massive and harder to move.
Denver is smaller and more nimble.
Denver has a lot of downtown history.
Union Station was critical to Denveru2019s growth and connects directly to the 16th Street Mall.
The redevelopment of Union Station was a beautiful project.
Historically, the railroad helped Denver grow because the rail route came through Denver instead of elsewhere.
Larimer Street and downtown Denver developed around rail traffic, travelers, and the commerce they needed.
Denver has historic assets, including Larimer Square and older buildings, that give it a character beyond steel, brick, and glass.
The city has serious struggles, including high minimum wages and permitting timelines, but there are good people who believe in downtown.
With the 16th Street Mall work completed or nearing completion, I expect to see more positive activity in the next couple of years.

SIGNET: It is a great area. I lived near Union Station and would jog through 16th Street. That area has completely changed, with Whole Foods, the train, and a safer environment.

STUART ZALL:

During COVID, Denver dropped its guard and got hit on multiple levels.
The trend is now improving.
Some older office buildings may be converted to residential if conversion is feasible.
There is still a need for housing, even if apartment rents are currently soft.
I expect the need for apartments to continue as the city grows.

SIGNET: Prices have come up a lot since then too.

STUART ZALL:

Prices have come up, and interest rates are another obstacle.
Every generation has something that gets in the way.
I often hear people say something is too expensive and that they will wait for prices to come down.
In the long run, saving a relatively small amount on price may matter less when amortized over decades.

SIGNET: I once heard that it is not timing the market, it is time in the market. It is the same principle.

STUART ZALL:

Jordan Perlmutter once told me that some real estate projects succeed because of timing.
Even if you do not time it perfectly, real estate is a long game.
It is like golf: people focus on individual shots, but real estate has waves.
There are periods when you can make a lot of money quickly, but overall you need a long-term view.
If you take the long view, you have a better chance of being successful.

SIGNET: It seems like that is also what you do with your investments. Originally, the name of this podcast was u201cThe Long-Term Real Estate Investor,u201d because thinking long term removes some of the pressure around things like IRR calculations. If you have a 100-year business plan, it changes the mentality. I feel that in your investing and leasing, it is always long term, and there are also a lot of transaction costs in trying to flip.

STUART ZALL:

In commercial real estate, long-term thinking is important.
Because I did not come from a real estate family, I had to start by planting seeds myself.
It would have been nice to walk into an existing forest, but I had to begin building it over time.

SIGNET: It is tricky too, because when you are starting out, how are you going to buy something without financing? A lot of times the long-term plan is to get rid of financing so you have more stability and the bumps in the road are not as dramatic. Let me ask you the wrap-up questions. What was the number-one deal that changed your career, taught you the most, or had the most impact on you?

STUART ZALL:

The most important turning point was not really a deal; it was going to work for the Taubman Company.
That job was transformational because it taught me how to lease not just to fill space, but to create neighborhoods.
When I was about 27, I met a friend at a restaurant called Fresh Choice, saw a huge line, and asked about the owner.
I had just taken a job involving two malls, and within about 30 days I made two deals with that restaurant operator.
That happened because I asked a question when the opportunity was right in front of me.
Sometimes you are on the one-yard line and only need to ask the question.
Over my career, I did several deals with that operator, so that became an important relationship and an important early lesson.

SIGNET: What are your three key daily habits that have made you successful? I am always curious what time people wake up, whether they meditate, read a certain newspaper, or spend family time.

STUART ZALL:

I do not read a newspaper.
I get up early, usually around five.
My most productive time is between about five and eight in the morning.
I try to filter out negative noise because there is always a lot of it.
I would tell people not to listen to all the noise that is designed to stop them.
I try to stay positive.
I meditate for about ten minutes almost every day.
I use paper and pencil to write things down, even with all the CRMs and technology available.
I try to be thankful.
I remind myself that there are many opportunities available and that people do not need to stay stuck.
I try to wake up with a smile and a mindset of taking on the world, even if some days are harder by the end.

SIGNET: Final question: what would you say to a young individual who wanted to start in the real estate business? They might not know whether they want to be a broker, investor, or what segment to focus on. How would they find their path?

STUART ZALL:

I would tell them not to be afraid.
If they need to live at their parentsu2019 house or drive Uber while getting started, they should do what they need to do.
They should absorb as much information as possible.
There is so much information available now that they do not even have to subscribe to everything to learn.
They should become an expert at something and become the go-to person in that area.
They should not try to do everything.
They should find one area and try to be the best at it.
They need passion for the business.
If they think of it only as a job, they are in the wrong business.
It is always a good time to get into real estate, and bad times can actually be the best times to start.

SIGNET: Stuart, thank you so much. We could do round two another time. Thank you for joining the podcast, and hopefully we will grab dinner soon.

STUART ZALL:

I hope so.

INTERVIEWER u2014 SPEAKER UNCERTAIN: Bonus question: what are your thoughts about the new Burnham Yard deal and what it is going to do for downtown?

STUART ZALL:

I do not know exactly how it will affect downtown, but I think it will be very positive for Burnham Yard.
Burnham Yard feels like one of the last major pieces of Denver that has not really been developed.
A key question is what happens to the area where the stadium is now if activity shifts.
I think the project will not hurt downtown because people will still come downtown, and the distance may not be dramatically different.
Large investments, such as a multibillion-dollar stadium, create a multiplier effect that benefits many people.
I do worry about displacement, especially for people who currently live nearby and may have cheaper rent.
Growth can be positive, but people still need places to live.
Denver has done some work around affordable housing, but development can still affect neighborhoods.
I think developers and stakeholders need to think carefully about who is affected.
Overall, I think the project is good, but I hope there is thoughtful attention to housing and displacement.

00:00 the only true hedge against inflation is
00:03

00:03 real estate
00:04

00:04 and i see us going into another
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00:06 inflationary period
00:08

00:08 i believe that he’s right
00:10

00:10 as long as you can increase your rents
00:14

00:14 you have a hedge against inflation
00:17

00:17 [Music]
00:32

00:32 uh
00:34

00:34 [Music]
00:56

00:56 how are you thank you for coming back as
00:58

00:58 you’ve seen we’ve changed the name of
00:60

00:60 the channel to the signet podcast that’s
01:02

01:02 just to keep everything consistent with
01:04

01:04 the brand of the company today
01:06

01:06 i’m excited to bring to you one of my
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01:08 favorite people in the world lauren
01:10

01:10 auerbach is the ceo of our back realty
01:13

01:13 holdings llc our back commercial realty
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01:16 corp as well as our back enterprises
01:19

01:19 lorna auerbach oversees a multi-state
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01:21 portfolio consisting of multi-family and
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01:24 retail in the states of california
01:26

01:26 colorado nevada oregon and texas please
01:28

01:28 enjoy this episode and please forward it
01:30

01:30 to anybody that can benefit from
01:32

01:32 watching the cigne podcast and
01:35

01:35 really appreciate my subscribers thank
01:37

01:37 you
01:38

01:38 [Music]
01:41

01:41 lorna thank you so much it’s an honor to
01:44

01:44 be here with you in santa monica i’m i’m
01:46

01:46 happy to see your office finally and
01:48

01:48 it’s beautiful and uh
01:51

01:51 thank you for your time i’m so happy to
01:53

01:53 be with you it’s my pleasure uh looking
01:55

01:55 forward to it
01:56

01:56 no i you’re you’re so sweet
01:59

01:59 you’re always you give me your time and
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02:01 i really it really does mean a lot to me
02:03

02:03 well i’m very flattered that you asked
02:05

02:05 me
02:06

02:06 i hope i have something to contribute
02:08

02:08 yeah you definitely do you always have i
02:10

02:10 mean i still need to read the book by
02:11

02:11 sam zell that you told me about
02:14

02:14 it’s on my desk
02:15

02:15 um and that’s actually my next read i
02:17

02:17 just finished a book yesterday so
02:19

02:19 uh so yeah
02:21

02:21 so
02:22

02:22 i wanted to ask to start off your
02:24

02:24 background a little bit how you got
02:26

02:26 started in real estate and
02:29

02:29 what was your entry point
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02:32 well
02:33

02:33 everybody in my family i think must have
02:36

02:36 the real estate gene
02:38

02:38 because our family on the hour back side
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02:40 which is spread all across the united
02:42

02:42 states and canada is in some aspect of
02:44

02:44 the business either architecture
02:46

02:46 construction development etc
02:50

02:50 and i never really thought about going
02:52

02:52 into the business because when
02:55

02:55 i was growing up
02:57

02:57 um women typically didn’t go into the
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02:60 family business or their father’s
03:01

03:01 business and my father whom i had a lot
03:03

03:03 of respect for encouraged me to become a
03:05

03:05 teacher
03:06

03:06 and my path was through
03:09

03:09 political science and history and then
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03:11 went on to teaching high school in the
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03:13 inner city
03:14

03:14 but every time we would get together
03:16

03:16 with our family everybody was talking
03:18

03:18 about real estate
03:20

03:20 and i wanted to be part of the
03:21

03:21 conversation and i also realized i
03:24

03:24 didn’t have any brothers to ultimately
03:26

03:26 step in and take over which would have
03:28

03:28 been the tradition
03:30

03:30 and so after seven years of teaching i
03:32

03:32 approached my father and i said
03:35

03:35 i’d really like to come into the
03:36

03:36 business i want to learn from you
03:38

03:38 somebody has to
03:39

03:39 understand what’s going on and be able
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03:41 to take over at some point
03:43

03:43 and i would like the opportunity to do
03:46

03:46 that
03:48

03:48 so
03:49

03:49 i uh he the first thing he said to me is
03:51

03:51 well then you’ve got to get your license
03:53

03:53 that’s the first step
03:54

03:54 so don’t leave teaching don’t burn any
03:56

03:56 bridges get your real estate license
03:58

03:58 first
03:59

03:59 take a leave of absence
04:01

04:01 and
04:02

04:02 try it for a year
04:03

04:03 and if you you know you might find out
04:06

04:06 it’s great and then you can quit
04:08

04:08 teaching or it’s not right for you and
04:09

04:09 you can go back
04:11

04:11 so i got my license i came to work for
04:12

04:12 him in the late 70s i was in my
04:16

04:16 late 20s
04:17

04:17 and
04:19

04:19 he put me to work for
04:21

04:21 one of his in-house brokers
04:23

04:23 learning from her actually i was working
04:25

04:25 under a woman
04:27

04:27 and at the time we had just completed
04:30

04:30 construction on 48 town homes in santa
04:32

04:32 monica we were building very
04:34

04:34 contemporary homes in glendale and we
04:37

04:37 had two office buildings under
04:38

04:38 construction in santa monica
04:40

04:40 and uh he had me sitting on the open
04:43

04:43 houses during construction
04:46

04:46 and i had to work on getting the
04:48

04:48 permanent financing on the office
04:50

04:50 buildings
04:51

04:51 and interest rates were double-digit at
04:53

04:53 that time
04:54

04:54 and i didn’t understand the vocabulary
04:58

04:58 of real estate it was like learning a
04:60

04:60 different language literally i would go
05:01

05:01 home and i would cry i was i had no idea
05:04

05:04 what anybody was talking about it really
05:05

05:05 was like learning a foreign language
05:08

05:08 and i went to him one day and i said i
05:10

05:10 really think i need to go back to school
05:12

05:12 i need to get an mba i need to learn
05:15

05:15 more about real estate and he said it’s
05:17

05:17 a complete waste of time and money i
05:18

05:18 don’t believe in it i’ve got a lot of
05:20

05:20 mbas working for me they don’t know
05:22

05:22 anything that was his attitude and he
05:25

05:25 really had never gone beyond a high
05:27

05:27 school education
05:29

05:29 and then he um enlisted in the military
05:32

05:32 well he didn’t even wait to be drafted
05:34

05:34 when world war ii broke out he
05:36

05:36 rose to the rank of captain and he
05:39

05:39 learned a lot i think about leadership
05:41

05:41 and management in the military
05:43

05:43 and he really believed that the best way
05:45

05:45 to learn a business was on the ground
05:47

05:47 from the ground up and he would say to
05:49

05:49 me
05:50

05:50 you either you have it or you don’t
05:52

05:52 somebody can’t teach it to you you’ve
05:53

05:53 got to have a feeling for it you’ve got
05:55

05:55 to have a vision
05:57

05:57 and i did learn a tremendous amount
05:60

05:60 going through a very difficult time
06:03

06:03 in our industry it was very challenging
06:05

06:05 kind of like it is today but in in a
06:08

06:08 different way right
06:10

06:10 were you
06:11

06:11 i mean maybe i’m wrong it was my
06:13

06:13 understanding that
06:14

06:14 your dad didn’t make it easy for you
06:16

06:16 that you really had to earn your keep in
06:18

06:18 your in the business you had to learn
06:20

06:20 and
06:21

06:21 you had to
06:23

06:23 you it wasn’t you know it wasn’t just
06:26

06:26 you know you work for the family
06:28

06:28 business not at all he was tough
06:30

06:30 and i started as a broker
06:32

06:32 so i was leasing office space
06:35

06:35 and
06:37

06:37 helping to sell houses
06:39

06:39 and working with retail tenants
06:42

06:42 some of the tenants that we have today
06:44

06:44 which are 25 years later are tenants
06:46

06:46 that
06:47

06:47 i leased to negotiated deals for and
06:49

06:49 then from leasing
06:52

06:52 i realized that you had to have a really
06:54

06:54 great product it had to be well managed
06:55

06:55 in order to attract good tenants
06:58

06:58 and we didn’t really have a professional
06:60

06:60 property management organization at the
07:01

07:01 time we had bookkeepers collecting rents
07:04

07:04 and
07:05

07:05 nobody really with any professional
07:07

07:07 training
07:08

07:08 and uh i said to him i think we need to
07:11

07:11 professionalize our organization
07:13

07:13 and
07:14

07:14 he said look i don’t know how to teach
07:16

07:16 you how to do that i’m a transactional
07:18

07:18 guy but
07:20

07:20 you know whatever you want to do you
07:21

07:21 want to start a property management
07:22

07:22 business go for it
07:24

07:24 so i joined the institute of real estate
07:26

07:26 management and i took all their courses
07:28

07:28 and i got my cpm designation and then i
07:31

07:31 applied for our company to get credited
07:34

07:34 management organization status
07:36

07:36 and
07:37

07:37 in addition to that i joined the
07:38

07:38 international council of shopping
07:40

07:40 centers
07:41

07:41 and i started going to all their events
07:44

07:44 and networking and meeting other people
07:46

07:46 in the industry
07:47

07:47 and i learned from them my father would
07:49

07:49 tell me all the time you know just
07:51

07:51 sit in on meetings and and watch and
07:54

07:54 listen but i’m not a teacher i can’t
07:56

07:56 teach you
07:57

07:57 so i realized that i needed to go to
07:59

07:59 school in my own way
08:01

08:01 and i wasn’t at the point where i felt i
08:03

08:03 could afford the time then
08:05

08:05 to take off a year and go to business
08:08

08:08 school
08:09

08:09 so i learned from peers in my industry
08:11

08:11 and then
08:12

08:12 i qualified for young presidents
08:14

08:14 organization
08:15

08:15 ypo
08:17

08:17 which has given me tremendous amount of
08:19

08:19 value and support because there are
08:22

08:22 today there are 29 000 members worldwide
08:26

08:26 you have to qualify before the age of 45
08:29

08:29 you have to have a certain
08:31

08:31 annual gross income your company has to
08:34

08:34 have a certain and minimum number of
08:36

08:36 employees to qualify but once you get
08:39

08:39 into the organization you have a very
08:40

08:40 strong pure network so i joined the real
08:43

08:43 estate network the construction industry
08:45

08:45 network
08:46

08:46 i got very active in my forum and in my
08:50

08:50 chapter and met members all over the
08:52

08:52 world in our industry
08:53

08:53 who really acted as my
08:56

08:56 teachers and mentors
08:58

08:58 i love that you’re telling me this
08:60

08:60 because
09:00

09:00 i listen to what you say and it’s really
09:02

09:02 great advice but one of my questions was
09:06

09:06 what do you think separates like a
09:07

09:07 mom-and-pop real estate investor versus
09:10

09:10 a sophisticated investor and in a way
09:11

09:11 you put together a program that made it
09:15

09:15 that you know that
09:16

09:16 looks at it a little bit more
09:19

09:19 you know trans not transactional but in
09:21

09:21 a more i don’t know
09:24

09:24 in a more
09:26

09:26 complex
09:27

09:27 systems
09:28

09:28 um
09:30

09:30 so yeah so
09:33

09:33 i was never involved on the acquisition
09:35

09:35 side of the business
09:37

09:37 as long as my father was alive may he
09:39

09:39 rest in peace
09:41

09:41 he handled all of the decisions
09:43

09:43 regarding acquisitions
09:45

09:45 but what i learned from him
09:47

09:47 is never fall in love with your real
09:49

09:49 estate that was one of his mantras
09:52

09:52 even though and and to be able to move
09:54

09:54 from sector to sector to pay attention
09:56

09:56 to what’s happening in the economy
09:58

09:58 um and what what’s happening i think
10:01

10:01 regionally for example
10:04

10:04 he started off as a builder he built
10:07

10:07 very large multi-family projects
10:10

10:10 because
10:11

10:11 he felt that there was um
10:14

10:14 times were changing women were entering
10:16

10:16 the workforce they needed child care so
10:18

10:18 we would build large projects that had
10:20

10:20 child care facilities
10:23

10:23 and
10:24

10:24 preschools and all kinds of
10:27

10:27 gym equipment you know outdoor parks for
10:30

10:30 the kids within the complex because he
10:32

10:32 understood that
10:34

10:34 as women were entering into the
10:36

10:36 workforce they needed to be able to
10:37

10:37 leave their kids safely at home
10:40

10:40 and
10:41

10:41 i think he was really at the forefront
10:43

10:43 of that and then when he saw that rent
10:45

10:45 control was coming he said he watched it
10:48

10:48 happening in new york and in san
10:50

10:50 francisco and he said now is the time
10:53

10:53 to move out of this sector to get out of
10:55

10:55 rent control before it hits california
10:57

10:57 let’s move into another sector so then
10:59

10:59 he moved into shopping centers
11:02

11:02 and
11:03

11:03 actually at the time that i joined him
11:05

11:05 he had just acquired a group of shopping
11:07

11:07 centers or was in the process he was
11:09

11:09 doing due diligence and he sent me down
11:12

11:12 to the seller’s headquarters
11:15

11:15 and i had to abstract all the leases so
11:17

11:17 that was my first
11:19

11:19 um exposure to retail and shopping
11:22

11:22 center leases
11:24

11:24 and then from there he moved into office
11:26

11:26 buildings and he moved into
11:28

11:28 single-family homes he was he moved he
11:30

11:30 was originally only in california and
11:32

11:32 then he saw that california prices were
11:34

11:34 too high and he wasn’t getting the
11:36

11:36 returns he wanted so he started looking
11:38

11:38 out of state
11:39

11:39 and i think that’s really what that was
11:42

11:42 a big take home for me and that’s the
11:44

11:44 difference between maybe a mom and pop
11:47

11:47 investor who doesn’t see the big picture
11:50

11:50 and holds on to what you would call
11:52

11:52 legacy properties
11:55

11:55 some of our properties are legacy
11:56

11:56 properties they’ve been in the family
11:58

11:58 for 35 years but
12:01

12:01 others are not there are a couple of
12:03

12:03 properties that i just bought
12:05

12:05 in the last couple of years
12:07

12:07 and uh it was a different market than
12:10

12:10 what he had gone into
12:13

12:13 we bought in colorado and
12:16

12:16 we bought single tenant retail
12:18

12:18 properties which he wasn’t really
12:20

12:20 looking at
12:21

12:21 so
12:23

12:23 sometimes i have issues with my partners
12:26

12:26 who want to hold on to things that don’t
12:28

12:28 make sense anymore right
12:30

12:30 and it’s difficult to try to educate
12:33

12:33 them also about reinvesting
12:36

12:36 in properties that
12:37

12:37 owning real estate and i think this is
12:39

12:39 another thing that differentiates a more
12:41

12:41 sophisticated investor from a mom and
12:43

12:43 pop
12:44

12:44 is it’s not a passive asset like owning
12:46

12:46 stock
12:47

12:47 or
12:48

12:48 like owning bonds
12:50

12:50 you have to
12:51

12:51 you have to put on new roofs you have to
12:54

12:54 repair parking lots you have to upgrade
12:57

12:57 technology whether it’s taking an
12:59

12:59 apartment building and moving it to
13:01

13:01 keyless entry and putting in
13:03

13:03 um
13:04

13:04 amazon lockers and and you know all the
13:07

13:07 things that that are changing in the
13:09

13:09 marketplace you have to keep up
13:11

13:11 and so
13:12

13:12 with a lot of mom and pop investors
13:15

13:15 they take their distributions but they
13:17

13:17 don’t
13:18

13:18 think about saving for the future and
13:21

13:21 reinvesting in the building okay
13:24

13:24 yeah speaking of saving
13:26

13:26 when this whole i like to stay away from
13:29

13:29 current events but the whole purpose of
13:31

13:31 this podcast was the long-term
13:33

13:33 sustainability
13:35

13:35 of being a property owner the beginning
13:37

13:37 of this when covett hit i remember you
13:39

13:39 said
13:41

13:41 this is why we say save for a rainy day
13:44

13:44 and uh
13:46

13:46 what did you mean by that like if
13:47

13:47 somebody is new into real estate what
13:49

13:49 could they get out of that statement
13:51

13:51 well what we did is we tried to pay down
13:54

13:54 all our debt so we had a lot of
13:55

13:55 buildings that had no debt
13:57

13:57 and um number two keep low leverage
14:02

14:02 um
14:03

14:03 three
14:04

14:04 i remember when um
14:06

14:06 variable interest rates
14:08

14:08 first hit the market this was like the
14:10

14:10 new big thing now
14:12

14:12 everybody just takes it for granted but
14:13

14:13 we didn’t always have variable rates we
14:16

14:16 had fixed rates and i remember when
14:18

14:18 these
14:19

14:19 young mortgage brokers would come to our
14:21

14:21 office they would try to sell my father
14:23

14:23 on going for variable rate loans and he
14:26

14:26 said no because i want to be able to
14:28

14:28 predict the next 15 years i want to have
14:30

14:30 fixed costs i want to know what my
14:32

14:32 mortgage payments are every month
14:34

14:34 and not have them go up and down
14:36

14:36 um
14:38

14:38 you know
14:39

14:39 the other thing that i learned is that
14:41

14:41 our tenants are our partners yeah and we
14:45

14:45 invest heavily with them especially in
14:47

14:47 retail when they’re first opening for
14:49

14:49 business
14:50

14:50 we give them free rent
14:52

14:52 we invest in their tenant improvements
14:54

14:54 we contribute to the tenant improvements
14:56

14:56 and uh you know we do everything that we
14:59

14:59 can to help them succeed
15:01

15:01 so when covet hit we realized we’re
15:04

15:04 still partners
15:05

15:05 and
15:06

15:06 we have to make the mortgage payments we
15:08

15:08 pay the property taxes
15:10

15:10 and we weren’t getting a but we had to
15:12

15:12 approach our lenders who were also our
15:14

15:14 partners and asked for forbearance
15:17

15:17 which meant getting our lenders to work
15:19

15:19 with us on maybe deferring payments for
15:22

15:22 six months we all thought this was going
15:24

15:24 to be short term we had no idea this was
15:26

15:26 going to go on for three years yeah
15:28

15:28 and uh if you have a good relationship
15:31

15:31 with your lender then your lender also
15:33

15:33 realizes that he needs you to succeed so
15:35

15:35 we’re this you know idea of saying we’re
15:38

15:38 all in this together
15:40

15:40 restaurant tenants we had many we still
15:42

15:42 do we have many restaurant tenants came
15:44

15:44 to us and said we need to open up in our
15:46

15:46 parking lot would you please work with
15:48

15:48 us in the city to give us permission to
15:51

15:51 serve on the sidewalks serve in the
15:52

15:52 parking lot you know what means being
15:55

15:55 flexible
15:57

15:57 yeah
15:58

15:58 no i agree with you it’s an equilibrium
15:60

15:60 it’s
16:01

16:01 if the the tenant doesn’t succeed and
16:03

16:03 you try to squeeze every penny from them
16:05

16:05 it becomes very hard to cover your
16:07

16:07 your mortgage payments and everything
16:09

16:09 like that but i’m thinking partnerships
16:11

16:11 within the ownership group
16:14

16:14 what advice do you have to people
16:16

16:16 when they’re structuring partnerships
16:18

16:18 for the long haul and any any advice
16:21

16:21 about that i have a lot to say
16:26

16:26 most people uh when they’re starting out
16:29

16:29 in the business don’t have enough of
16:30

16:30 their own capital
16:32

16:32 to do deals by themselves
16:35

16:35 maybe to buy a single family home but if
16:36

16:36 they want to
16:38

16:38 buy an apartment building
16:40

16:40 they probably need to take in especially
16:42

16:42 young people they have to take in
16:44

16:44 outside investors
16:47

16:47 and a lot of times they what’s typical
16:49

16:49 is to go to friends and family and then
16:51

16:51 your friends and family talk about how
16:53

16:53 great the deal is and they refer you to
16:57

16:57 other people that are their friends etc
16:60

16:60 and that’s how they build these big
17:02

17:02 partnership investment groups taking in
17:04

17:04 limited partners
17:06

17:06 and
17:07

17:07 when my dad started he started the same
17:09

17:09 way he came you know he came out of the
17:10

17:10 army he didn’t have his own capital but
17:12

17:12 he learned construction he was a
17:14

17:14 terrific contractor his buildings people
17:17

17:17 will still say there it’s an hour back
17:19

17:19 built building and that’s a sign of
17:20

17:20 quality and they’re still standing in
17:22

17:22 there
17:23

17:23 um
17:24

17:24 so
17:25

17:25 he was able to go to his buddies
17:28

17:28 who also had served during the during
17:31

17:31 the war and they were also entrepreneurs
17:34

17:34 so they owned gas stations or they had a
17:36

17:36 meat packing company i mean they had all
17:38

17:38 kinds of businesses they were some of
17:40

17:40 them were doctors
17:41

17:41 and they said uh ernie i’m you know
17:43

17:43 earning good money now i want to invest
17:46

17:46 in real estate find me a deal
17:48

17:48 so he would go out and he’d find deals
17:51

17:51 he’d put his buddies in
17:52

17:52 and um
17:54

17:54 you know
17:56

17:56 he never thought beyond that generation
17:60

17:60 so they went in as general partners
18:02

18:02 which meant they were all equal and had
18:05

18:05 to make decisions together
18:07

18:07 what i would say to young people who are
18:08

18:08 doing that i would never do it that way
18:11

18:11 i would say you go in as the general
18:13

18:13 partner you take in your buddies as
18:15

18:15 limited partners you have to be the
18:16

18:16 decision maker you have to manage to
18:18

18:18 have authority to manage the asset you
18:20

18:20 have to be able to make capital calls
18:22

18:22 when the project needs money
18:24

18:24 and um
18:26

18:26 because what happens when your partners
18:29

18:29 have kids and their kids have kids and
18:32

18:32 their kids have kids we’re now dealing
18:34

18:34 with the children and grandchildren
18:37

18:37 of the founding generation
18:40

18:40 and it’s very challenging for my
18:43

18:43 daughter and me because we grew up being
18:45

18:45 active in the business and we’re dealing
18:48

18:48 with partners who are passive investors
18:51

18:51 right and they don’t have the you know
18:53

18:53 they just want their check every month
18:55

18:55 right and
18:57

18:57 it’s difficult sometimes for them to
18:59

18:59 come up
19:00

19:00 with a cash when we have to make a
19:02

19:02 capital call to put on a new roof or
19:04

19:04 repave a parking lot or how about an
19:08

19:08 apartment building where for the first
19:10

19:10 time in the history of the building
19:12

19:12 we have close to a dozen vacancies at
19:14

19:14 one time
19:15

19:15 due to covid
19:17

19:17 and these units have not been touched
19:19

19:19 for 20 years and we’ve got to do massive
19:22

19:22 renovations and all of a sudden we have
19:24

19:24 to come up with a million dollars to
19:26

19:26 invest in the building
19:28

19:28 so
19:28

19:28 these are the challenges when you’re
19:30

19:30 dealing
19:31

19:31 with partnerships so
19:33

19:33 my goal has been to buy out my partners
19:37

19:37 or have my partners buy me out or make a
19:40

19:40 decision to sell together and let’s go
19:42

19:42 our separate ways okay
19:46

19:46 so
19:47

19:47 one of the the things that i also wanted
19:49

19:49 to ask you about i i mean and this is
19:51

19:51 speculation
19:53

19:53 um
19:54

19:54 you’re talking about grandkids and
19:56

19:56 you know passing on properties
19:60

19:60 i always saw you as a long-term investor
20:02

20:02 probably one of the longest term
20:03

20:03 investors that
20:05

20:05 uh that i’ve talked with
20:10

20:10 why do you use that strategy
20:12

20:12 are you what is the ideal hold period
20:15

20:15 for you if there is one
20:16

20:16 it’s kind of a trick question i guess
20:18

20:18 okay so this is this is something that i
20:20

20:20 learned from my father also he said you
20:22

20:22 have to have the mentality of going to
20:25

20:25 an auction you sit when everybody is
20:27

20:27 standing you stand when everybody is
20:29

20:29 sitting
20:30

20:30 okay
20:31

20:31 and you have to sell
20:34

20:34 when the time is right to sell
20:36

20:36 when when you’ve gotten your best
20:38

20:38 returns out of the property and there’s
20:40

20:40 no place else to go with it
20:42

20:42 that’s the time to sell
20:44

20:44 if you can get
20:45

20:45 for example if you sell a property in
20:48

20:48 southern california today
20:50

20:50 the buyer is go if it’s a good property
20:53

20:53 say santa monica wilshire boulevard the
20:56

20:56 buyer is only going to get a one or two
20:58

20:58 percent return
21:00

21:00 so who’s going to buy it somebody who’s
21:02

21:02 a generational buyer
21:04

21:04 and these usually are not
21:08

21:08 they’re usually not americans because
21:10

21:10 americans think short term they’re
21:12

21:12 usually foreign buyers who are buying
21:15

21:15 for future generations and they’re
21:16

21:16 willing to sit
21:18

21:18 and
21:19

21:19 maybe not make money
21:21

21:21 but they know that their children and
21:22

21:22 their grandchildren will do really well
21:25

21:25 my father
21:27

21:27 wanted strong cash on cash returns he
21:30

21:30 didn’t think like an institutional
21:31

21:31 investor who is looking at internal
21:34

21:34 rates of return says i want to know when
21:36

21:36 i’m going to get my cash back and i’m
21:37

21:37 going to start getting return on my cash
21:39

21:39 and so if he could buy a property
21:42

21:42 in texas or nevada yeah and get seven
21:45

21:45 percent on his money
21:47

21:47 he would sell his california property
21:49

21:49 which he did
21:51

21:51 and he would buy
21:52

21:52 in texas or nevada or colorado or you
21:55

21:55 know and get a seven percent return my
21:57

21:57 daughter right now just sold a southern
21:59

21:59 california property
22:00

22:00 and she’s looking um she’s identified
22:03

22:03 properties in ohio
22:05

22:05 and georgia
22:07

22:07 and utah yeah which will give her much
22:09

22:09 better returns yeah and what what the
22:12

22:12 institutions have to do and a lot of um
22:14

22:14 general partnerships who take in
22:16

22:16 limiteds
22:18

22:18 they have a five to seven year hold
22:19

22:19 period because they know that their
22:21

22:21 investors want to get their money in
22:24

22:24 so the problem with that is they have to
22:26

22:26 sell when it’s a time to buy and buy
22:29

22:29 when it’s a time to sell
22:32

22:32 so i i would rather be in a position
22:34

22:34 of
22:35

22:35 buying when when when it’s the right
22:37

22:37 time to buy not just because it’s five
22:39

22:39 years or seven years
22:41

22:41 right
22:43

22:43 it’s funny because my friend told me he
22:45

22:45 suggested that i start this podcast
22:48

22:48 because he saw a lot of these uh
22:50

22:50 a lot of the new mentality with
22:52

22:52 crowdfunding that a lot of these deals
22:54

22:54 were very short-term deals and he always
22:56

22:56 saw me as
22:57

22:57 you know me and my family being a
22:59

22:59 long-term holder and maybe exposing that
23:02

23:02 side of the of the business that that is
23:04

23:04 a different way to think
23:06

23:06 and
23:07

23:07 it’s funny how i was going to call it
23:09

23:09 the ironically contrarian because it’s
23:11

23:11 it’s ironic that
23:13

23:13 it’s so contrary to the instant
23:15

23:15 gratification of
23:17

23:17 making money fast but um
23:19

23:19 but that sort of you know that’s sort of
23:21

23:21 what i grew up with
23:23

23:23 so
23:24

23:24 so yeah what do you
23:26

23:26 regarding trends nowadays maybe not so
23:29

23:29 much with covid more with the internet
23:31

23:31 and how things have been changing so
23:33

23:33 much how do you think that’s going to
23:34

23:34 impact retail and big cities
23:37

23:37 things like that
23:39

23:39 well i’ve been hearing about the impact
23:41

23:41 of technology on retail now
23:44

23:44 for at least five years
23:46

23:46 and so
23:48

23:48 personally i’m investing in property
23:50

23:50 technology
23:52

23:52 and um
23:53

23:53 and investing in the stock market in
23:56

23:56 prop tech because i believe in it
23:59

23:59 i think that retailers who don’t embrace
24:02

24:02 it are going to be out of business and i
24:03

24:03 think one of the things that
24:05

24:05 amazon learned and we learned from
24:07

24:07 watching amazon that you can’t
24:10

24:10 just be online
24:13

24:13 you have to have brick and mortar to
24:14

24:14 back it up and if you have brick and
24:17

24:17 mortar
24:18

24:18 you also have to have technology
24:21

24:21 in a way that’s i think covet had that
24:23

24:23 effect you had only online
24:26

24:26 for a long time or mostly online
24:28

24:28 meetings were on and people got tired of
24:30

24:30 not going out and now certain locations
24:33

24:33 are
24:34

24:34 they’re blowing up you know 150 170
24:37

24:37 percent of sales before the pandemic
24:40

24:40 just because people want to get out
24:41

24:41 there and they like the the ambiance
24:43

24:43 that just you know
24:44

24:44 going to buy and try things on and that
24:47

24:47 whole well amazon is now buying pharmacy
24:49

24:49 properties they’re opening up their own
24:51

24:51 supermarkets and then
24:53

24:53 we have a tenant
24:55

24:55 in one of our properties nordstrom and
24:58

24:58 when we were first approached this
24:60

24:60 morning i go there almost every morning
25:01

25:01 because of starbucks and they said
25:03

25:03 nordstrom wants to open up and uh you
25:05

25:05 know you’re 1500 1500 2000 square feet
25:08

25:08 how do you open up like i i didn’t get
25:10

25:10 it and then the broker explained to me
25:13

25:13 look women don’t want to first of all
25:16

25:16 people don’t want to deal with traffic
25:18

25:18 anymore you know they don’t want to sit
25:20

25:20 you know 30 minutes in their car to go
25:22

25:22 shopping and then have especially women
25:24

25:24 don’t want to go into these underground
25:26

25:26 parking lots
25:27

25:27 and you’ll look for a place to park and
25:29

25:29 go into a big shopping mall they want
25:31

25:31 the convenience
25:33

25:33 of being able to go to a neighborhood
25:35

25:35 store
25:36

25:36 to try clothes on have them altered have
25:39

25:39 things delivered to that store be able
25:41

25:41 to return from that store and nordstrom
25:44

25:44 figured it out they figured it out when
25:46

25:46 saks didn’t figure it out neiman’s
25:48

25:48 didn’t figure it out right i think about
25:50

25:50 nordstrom nordstrom is a
25:52

25:52 multi-generational family business
25:54

25:54 and their mission statement was always
25:56

25:56 about service
25:58

25:58 if you were two shoes of two different
25:60

25:60 sizes they’ll sell you the eight and a
26:02

26:02 half and the nine i mean they’ve been
26:04

26:04 over backwards to accommodate customers
26:06

26:06 and here they were doing it again
26:08

26:08 so
26:10

26:10 they have gift wrapping you know when i
26:11

26:11 first went into the store when it opened
26:14

26:14 and i saw that they had fitting rooms
26:16

26:16 and they had a tailor there full time
26:18

26:18 and they had uh an online
26:21

26:21 fashion consultant who so you could
26:23

26:23 stand with her at the computer monitor
26:25

26:25 and she would tell you what size you
26:27

26:27 were in a certain line and help you put
26:29

26:29 together the whole wardrobe have it
26:30

26:30 delivered to their store you could try
26:32

26:32 it on there
26:34

26:34 and you know within a few blocks of your
26:36

26:36 house i thought this was genius yeah and
26:39

26:39 they decided to open up based on their
26:41

26:41 customers zip codes they knew where
26:42

26:42 their customers were coming from
26:44

26:44 so they opened up a west hollywood store
26:46

26:46 and they opened up a oh that’s you know
26:48

26:48 a brentwood store
26:50

26:50 yeah no that’s super interesting i
26:51

26:51 remember that was before that was a that
26:54

26:54 was one of the first stores like that i
26:55

26:55 remember seeing it in the newspaper
26:58

26:58 um
26:59

26:59 so yeah
27:00

27:00 that is an interesting concept it seems
27:02

27:02 to be working really well i mean i like
27:04

27:04 it a lot but uh i pretty much find
27:07

27:07 something that i like and then i stick
27:08

27:08 with it because i’m i love shopping but
27:11

27:11 i like it too much and it keeps my life
27:12

27:12 super loud
27:14

27:14 you you mentioned the uh the teamwork of
27:16

27:16 all the different parties in real estate
27:18

27:18 the brokers
27:19

27:19 um the lenders banks
27:23

27:23 you know the escrow everybody how
27:26

27:26 important are those relations how do you
27:28

27:28 nourish those relationships
27:30

27:30 extremely important yeah
27:32

27:32 i think the uh relationship with the
27:34

27:34 brokers is really critical
27:36

27:36 and it’s important to be
27:39

27:39 very clear with the brokers as to what
27:40

27:40 you’re looking for and so that you know
27:43

27:43 you’re not wasting a lot of their time
27:45

27:45 and they’re spinning their wheels and
27:47

27:47 have just have a clear strategy
27:49

27:49 and i know one of the things that i
27:52

27:52 learned from my father when a broker
27:53

27:53 would call the first thing he would say
27:55

27:55 is is this your listing
27:57

27:57 i want to make sure it’s your exclusive
27:59

27:59 listing two have you physically been to
28:02

28:02 the property
28:03

28:03 and tell me what’s around it now
28:05

28:05 remember this was in the days before we
28:07

28:07 had drones and before we had google
28:09

28:09 earth
28:11

28:11 you you had to have physically gone to
28:13

28:13 the property
28:15

28:15 two he was very clear
28:18

28:18 on
28:19

28:19 what he was looking for for example in
28:21

28:21 santa monica
28:23

28:23 he
28:24

28:24 he purchased
28:25

28:25 multiple corner properties on wilshire
28:27

28:27 boulevard it wasn’t by accident he told
28:30

28:30 the broker don’t bring me anything
28:31

28:31 unless it’s on a corner and he had
28:34

28:34 brokers who would look for things and
28:36

28:36 and you know it would be off market
28:38

28:38 they’d have to go and get a single party
28:40

28:40 exclusive before he would look at it
28:42

28:42 because he wanted to avoid conflicts
28:44

28:44 between brokers saying i brought you the
28:47

28:47 deal no i brought you the deal and
28:50

28:50 in working with attorneys he would tell
28:52

28:52 me you know he surrounded himself with
28:54

28:54 attorneys
28:55

28:55 that he worked with for
28:58

28:58 they started with him maybe when they
28:59

28:59 were in their 20s
29:01

29:01 and they’re now my age and we’re still
29:03

29:03 working together it’s almost like
29:05

29:05 extended family these are people who
29:07

29:07 have a real deep knowledge of our
29:09

29:09 industry and who i know i can trust
29:11

29:11 but one thing that he always reminded me
29:14

29:14 of is
29:16

29:16 attorneys can often be deal breakers i
29:18

29:18 know people have heard this before
29:20

29:20 because they’re trying to protect your
29:21

29:21 downside
29:23

29:23 and
29:24

29:24 you ultimately have to make the business
29:25

29:25 decision
29:27

29:27 and there’s always risk
29:29

29:29 so you can’t always listen to your
29:31

29:31 attorney yeah
29:33

29:33 you have you have to go with your gut
29:36

29:36 and
29:37

29:37 it’s it’s about having a vision and
29:39

29:39 trusting your vision trust look at all
29:41

29:41 the numbers but then in the end you have
29:43

29:43 to trust your own intuition no that
29:45

29:45 makes a ton of sense i i always felt
29:47

29:47 that you have to manage everybody you
29:49

29:49 work with and understand what their
29:50

29:50 motivations are a lawyer’s job is to
29:53

29:53 keep you safe and sometimes
29:55

29:55 that means not doing something that you
29:57

29:57 are willing to take the risk to do and
29:60

29:60 sometimes it’s reasonably understandable
30:02

30:02 sometimes it’s not
30:04

30:04 or not not but it’s it’s different than
30:06

30:06 what the lawyer thinks you should do
30:08

30:08 their lawyer not the business person
30:10

30:10 yeah also the bankers
30:13

30:13 he had really good long-term
30:15

30:15 relationships with his bankers
30:17

30:17 and one of his biggest complaints over
30:19

30:19 the years was that the bankers that he
30:20

30:20 worked with
30:22

30:22 they
30:24

30:24 at that point in real estate history
30:28

30:28 he could get an answer on a handshake
30:30

30:30 and things didn’t have to go through
30:33

30:33 multiple layers of committee evaluations
30:36

30:36 etc
30:37

30:37 they knew him they knew his reputation
30:39

30:39 they knew he had never defaulted on a
30:41

30:41 loan and
30:42

30:42 you know they were always willing to
30:44

30:44 provide him funding but he saw over the
30:46

30:46 years there was such turnover you know
30:48

30:48 the bankers that he worked with had been
30:51

30:51 you know with that bank for maybe 25
30:54

30:54 years right and then he started seeing a
30:56

30:56 lot of turnover as young people came in
30:58

30:58 every five years
30:59

30:59 they would change and he no longer had
31:01

31:01 the relationships so
31:03

31:03 he decided to start his own bank he said
31:05

31:05 i want to i want to be the kind of bank
31:08

31:08 that i would like to deal with where i
31:11

31:11 can
31:12

31:12 i can finance a developer based on just
31:15

31:15 knowing who he is understanding his
31:17

31:17 integrity um
31:19

31:19 and and having trust and believing in
31:22

31:22 his project and not having to go through
31:24

31:24 multiple layers to get approved i love
31:26

31:26 his uh creative spirit of doing all
31:29

31:29 these things that really were needed in
31:30

31:30 the marketplace uh that’s that’s very
31:33

31:33 interesting
31:35

31:35 you know i also wanted to ask yeah i’m
31:38

31:38 wondering with brokers
31:40

31:40 do you have like a few brokers that you
31:43

31:43 are you know somewhat loyal to or do you
31:47

31:47 you know the shotgun approach of like
31:49

31:49 you know
31:50

31:50 talking to every broker like what’s a
31:52

31:52 better strategy because i could see how
31:54

31:54 brokers might not want to work with you
31:56

31:56 if you have
31:58

31:58 you know everybody on the street
31:60

31:60 in terms of leasing and selling our own
32:03

32:03 properties
32:05

32:05 we use a third-party management company
32:07

32:07 on a lot of our
32:09

32:09 southern california properties
32:11

32:11 and part of the agreement that we have
32:13

32:13 with them is that they have exclusive
32:15

32:15 leasing rights
32:16

32:16 on the properties that they manage for
32:18

32:18 us
32:19

32:19 they’re a very sophisticated
32:20

32:20 organization we love working with them
32:23

32:23 they’ve brought us great tenants and
32:26

32:26 they do a really good job of
32:27

32:27 representing us
32:30

32:30 um in terms of looking for properties to
32:33

32:33 acquire
32:35

32:35 we go out on our own typically what
32:37

32:37 happens is
32:39

32:39 we’ll go on to co-star or loopnet or
32:43

32:43 we we will get we get thousands of
32:46

32:46 submittals from all over the country of
32:48

32:48 properties that are for sale
32:50

32:50 and
32:51

32:51 we do our own underwriting here in the
32:53

32:53 office we do our own analysis
32:56

32:56 and then
32:57

32:57 we typically will represent ourselves
33:00

33:00 on the buy side okay
33:02

33:02 and um we deal directly with the broker
33:05

33:05 who has the listing okay
33:09

33:09 that’s interesting is there a certain
33:11

33:11 state that you’re looking to invest now
33:13

33:13 or that wherever we can get the best
33:15

33:15 return so right now we’re focusing on
33:18

33:18 single tenant triple net properties out
33:20

33:20 of state
33:21

33:21 uh
33:22

33:22 in state we will look at multi-tenant
33:24

33:24 properties because
33:26

33:26 we can you know we can manage them
33:28

33:28 ourselves but if we’re going out of
33:29

33:29 state unless we’re going to buy multiple
33:32

33:32 properties in a single market it doesn’t
33:34

33:34 make sense right and
33:36

33:36 we’re so heavy in multi-tenant retail
33:39

33:39 right now that we’re trying to branch
33:41

33:41 out
33:42

33:42 and
33:44

33:44 diversify into other sectors
33:47

33:47 [Music]
33:48

33:48 okay would you take other i mean just
33:50

33:50 out of curiosity i don’t
33:53

33:53 know if you would if you do it only like
33:56

33:56 a family office type of business or have
33:58

33:58 you ever thought of starting a fund or
34:01

34:01 anything like that i don’t know if
34:03

34:03 that’s what you’d be interested in i’m
34:05

34:05 not interested my daughter might be
34:08

34:08 okay
34:09

34:09 i’ve been talking to somebody who’s
34:11

34:11 encouraging me to go in that direction
34:13

34:13 yeah
34:14

34:14 um but i’m trying to get out of
34:16

34:16 partnerships
34:17

34:17 right
34:19

34:19 i would rather be smaller and be in
34:21

34:21 control of my own destiny right
34:24

34:24 i could totally understand that there’s
34:25

34:25 a lot of flexibility you have when you
34:27

34:27 don’t have to answer to investors that
34:28

34:28 may or may not have different objectives
34:31

34:31 and
34:31

34:31 you know different goals so yeah i mean
34:34

34:34 unless you’re completely in alignment
34:37

34:37 which i may be with uh with a potential
34:40

34:40 partner that’s my peer and i understand
34:42

34:42 how they operate but i don’t want them
34:45

34:45 to leave that burden to my daughter and
34:47

34:47 to her daughters right
34:49

34:49 what do you feel about like passive
34:51

34:51 investing in other people’s
34:53

34:53 you know other people’s
34:54

34:54 properties or i do it now
34:57

34:57 yeah um
34:59

34:59 but
34:59

34:59 i’ve inherited a couple of passive
35:02

35:02 investments where my father was a
35:04

35:04 passive investor
35:05

35:05 those have not worked out so well
35:08

35:08 i felt that i wasn’t heavily enough
35:11

35:11 invested in multi-family right
35:13

35:13 and so
35:14

35:14 a friend of mine who actually is an
35:16

35:16 office building owner and developer told
35:19

35:19 me that she’s been investing with this
35:20

35:20 one organization
35:22

35:22 that’s
35:23

35:23 buying a lot of large multi-family
35:25

35:25 projects out of state and she highly
35:27

35:27 recommended them i’ve been investing
35:29

35:29 with them i’m doing very well
35:31

35:31 okay also investing with another friend
35:34

35:34 who um
35:35

35:35 founded a company that loans money
35:38

35:38 bridge loans and so i’m investing with
35:42

35:42 them so we put out our money to lend to
35:44

35:44 other developers we’re doing very well
35:46

35:46 with that so i’m investing with others
35:49

35:49 who are in sectors that i’m not in who
35:51

35:51 have expertise in areas that i don’t
35:53

35:53 and
35:54

35:54 you know one of the things um
35:56

35:56 i want to say about being an active
35:59

35:59 investor and having an organization to
36:01

36:01 manage your properties in-house
36:04

36:04 my mother’s you know use my mother used
36:06

36:06 to say to my father often
36:10

36:10 if you want to sleep at night why don’t
36:12

36:12 we just sell
36:13

36:13 sell the real estate and let’s just buy
36:15

36:15 bonds and clip coupons
36:18

36:18 and um we won’t have anything to worry
36:20

36:20 about because in our business you’re
36:22

36:22 always involved in lawsuits yeah it’s
36:24

36:24 just it just comes with the territory
36:27

36:27 and things are up and down and there are
36:29

36:29 plenty of times when you can’t sleep at
36:30

36:30 night
36:31

36:31 and he said the only true hedge against
36:34

36:34 inflation is real estate
36:36

36:36 and i see us going into another
36:38

36:38 inflationary period i believe that he’s
36:41

36:41 right
36:42

36:42 as long as you can increase your rents
36:46

36:46 you have a hedge against inflation
36:48

36:48 the problem is is that a lot of us after
36:52

36:52 the last go-round where we had rents
36:54

36:54 tied to consumer price index the
36:57

36:57 consumer price index was double-digit
36:60

36:60 a lot of tenants couldn’t pay it right
37:02

37:02 them out of business
37:03

37:03 so then we went back the other way and
37:06

37:06 then we had leases where no tenant would
37:08

37:08 sign more than a two percent annual
37:10

37:10 increase
37:11

37:11 well we’re already up to between four
37:13

37:13 and five percent inflation
37:15

37:15 in situations like that it’s not a hedge
37:17

37:17 against inflation yeah so the sectors
37:20

37:20 that are doing well
37:22

37:22 are multi-family
37:23

37:23 if they’re not in rent control they can
37:26

37:26 keep up with inflation
37:27

37:27 and i would say you know industrial
37:31

37:31 business parks where you’re on short
37:33

37:33 term leases
37:35

37:35 one two three year leases those are good
37:37

37:37 hedges against inflation yeah no
37:39

37:39 inflation is definitely a concern it’s
37:41

37:41 that’s like one of the main topics
37:43

37:43 probably a key word right now it’s hard
37:45

37:45 to some people say it won’t happen some
37:47

37:47 people say it’s already happening you
37:49

37:49 know but i think real estate
37:52

37:52 is incredible for inflation in apartment
37:54

37:54 buildings because they get reset every
37:56

37:56 year so i mean not rent control once but
37:58

37:58 uh but yeah some commercial properties
38:01

38:01 those 70-year walgreens that are
38:03

38:03 you know that are fixed at a certain
38:05

38:05 rate that’s that that’s the opposite of
38:08

38:08 a that’s not it sounds like a safe
38:11

38:11 investment but
38:12

38:12 it may not be one of the things that i
38:14

38:14 think about when we’re looking at
38:16

38:16 properties now
38:17

38:17 is some of the properties that we’re
38:19

38:19 looking at
38:20

38:20 which are really great there’s only five
38:22

38:22 years remaining on the lease
38:25

38:25 or we’ll look at a property where there
38:27

38:27 are ten years remaining but the tenant
38:29

38:29 has the option to cancel after five
38:32

38:32 right so then you think okay well there
38:34

38:34 are pros and cons
38:35

38:35 if i lose the tenant after five then i
38:38

38:38 can mark the property to market
38:40

38:40 the problem is i can’t get a lender to
38:42

38:42 finance a property that’s just got five
38:45

38:45 years yeah on the lease
38:47

38:47 if the lender is looking at giving me a
38:49

38:49 15-year loan
38:50

38:50 so
38:51

38:51 you have to weigh the pros and cons yeah
38:53

38:53 i’ve thought of that a little bit where
38:55

38:55 i don’t like five-year leases because it
38:57

38:57 does make it hard it’s let’s say you
38:58

38:58 want to sell the building it makes it
38:60

39:00 very unmarketable to somebody who wants
39:03

39:03 to get a loan which could hurt your your
39:05

39:05 pool of potential buyers
39:08

39:08 are there any risks that you look for
39:10

39:10 when you’re looking for a new property
39:12

39:12 that somebody might not be aware of
39:15

39:15 one does the tenant have the right to
39:17

39:17 cancel right
39:19

39:19 two
39:19

39:19 i don’t like that if the tenant has the
39:21

39:21 right to cancel as far as i’m concerned
39:23

39:23 it’s not a lease yeah
39:25

39:25 is it a one-time right or an ongoing
39:26

39:26 right
39:27

39:27 number two
39:29

39:29 does the tenant have the right of first
39:30

39:30 refusal to purchase the property himself
39:33

39:33 or the right of first offer in that case
39:36

39:36 the tenant
39:37

39:37 is going to be competing against me for
39:38

39:38 the property right three are there any
39:41

39:41 environmental issues that i don’t know
39:43

39:43 about like a massive chemical cleanup
39:45

39:45 which could cost over a million dollars
39:48

39:48 four how much deferred maintenance is on
39:50

39:50 the building do i need to put on a new
39:52

39:52 roof do i need to
39:54

39:54 uh are there new for example in santa
39:56

39:56 monica is the has the building been
39:58

39:58 tagged for an earthquake retrofit that’s
40:00

40:00 a million dollars depending on the size
40:03

40:03 of the building
40:04

40:04 um
40:06

40:06 and then uh the other thing i look for
40:08

40:08 is escalations in the lease
40:11

40:11 i want to make sure that i’m getting
40:12

40:12 escalations that can keep up with
40:14

40:14 inflation
40:16

40:16 that’s a good list
40:18

40:18 that’s a very good list
40:19

40:19 um
40:20

40:20 all right well do you have any uh we’re
40:22

40:22 pretty much done i uh
40:25

40:25 well one question i wanted to ask you
40:27

40:27 and i think i asked this because my
40:29

40:29 uncles my uncles are dentists and
40:31

40:31 you know there’s at one point where
40:33

40:33 my father and me were helping them put
40:34

40:34 their money in real estate so this
40:36

40:36 question comes out of that are
40:39

40:39 do you think dentist doctors people that
40:41

40:41 are not in real estate should be
40:43

40:43 investing in real estate absolutely
40:46

40:46 absolutely because they can’t work
40:47

40:47 forever
40:49

40:49 and a lot of my father’s investors were
40:51

40:51 professionals
40:53

40:53 and
40:54

40:54 basically his approach to them
40:56

40:56 is what’s your retirement plan
40:58

40:58 right so
40:59

40:59 some people believe in the stock market
41:01

41:01 other people believe in in buying bonds
41:04

41:04 because independent entrepreneurs don’t
41:06

41:06 have the same
41:07

41:07 um
41:08

41:08 type of investment vehicles provided by
41:11

41:11 their companies as if you know if they
41:13

41:13 work for a large corporation right
41:15

41:15 so
41:16

41:16 they have to think like entrepreneurs in
41:18

41:18 terms of their retirement too and he was
41:21

41:21 a strong believer in real estate and
41:23

41:23 they saw how well he did with it
41:25

41:25 and it did become a great
41:27

41:27 source of retirement
41:29

41:29 income
41:30

41:30 for all of those investors
41:33

41:33 so once they you know once they sold
41:35

41:35 their practice or retired they were
41:37

41:37 getting regular checks every month
41:39

41:39 what i like about that idea too is you
41:41

41:41 could kind of utilize
41:43

41:43 leverage in a way where it expi you
41:45

41:45 could buy a little bit more than you
41:47

41:47 have all cash and it expires or
41:50

41:50 you know the term of the loan ends when
41:53

41:53 you want to retire and then you have a
41:54

41:54 much higher cash flow than you would
41:56

41:56 have had if you just bought something
41:57

41:57 off cash
41:59

41:59 and it sort of pays for itself
42:01

42:01 what’s the uh what do you think’s the
42:03

42:03 hardest lesson that real estate has
42:05

42:05 taught you about being a
42:07

42:07 business person
42:09

42:09 i guess in life too
42:11

42:11 i think the toughest lessons that i’ve
42:13

42:13 learned
42:14

42:14 have to do with dealing with partners
42:16

42:16 really wow
42:19

42:19 i
42:20

42:20 i’m not the master of my destiny that i
42:23

42:23 can’t make the decisions that i think
42:25

42:25 are best for the property
42:27

42:27 because i’m not in alignment with my
42:30

42:30 partnership’s goal my partner’s goals
42:32

42:32 for example my daughter and i believe
42:35

42:35 that our legacy properties a lot of them
42:37

42:37 are old and tired and need to be
42:39

42:39 repurposed
42:40

42:40 that they are
42:42

42:42 that the lots are being underutilized
42:45

42:45 for example we have a single story
42:47

42:47 retail building on a prime boulevard
42:50

42:50 that is at a big lot and it really
42:52

42:52 should be an apartment building it
42:54

42:54 should be a multi-family building we
42:55

42:55 have a huge housing shortage
42:58

42:58 in the state we all know that
42:60

42:60 multi-family
43:01

43:01 she would like to build senior housing
43:03

43:03 and she’s got some really innovative
43:05

43:05 ideas about how that should be done
43:08

43:08 fortunately that property is not in a
43:10

43:10 partnership
43:11

43:11 but i owned other properties similar
43:14

43:14 with a partner
43:16

43:16 who did not want to develop he wanted to
43:17

43:17 continue with passive income didn’t want
43:19

43:19 to put any money into the property
43:21

43:21 didn’t want to refinance
43:23

43:23 and
43:24

43:24 you know that was a problem
43:26

43:26 so we agreed to sell together
43:29

43:29 and in some cases we agreed to buy each
43:31

43:31 other out yeah
43:33

43:33 okay yeah
43:35

43:35 uh last question what are if you have do
43:38

43:38 you have what are your three key daily
43:40

43:40 habits
43:43

43:43 that help you sort of organize your day
43:45

43:45 and
43:45

43:45 give you the
43:47

43:47 you know i’ve heard from other people
43:49

43:49 when you’re in business you you’re very
43:51

43:51 sophisticated
43:53

43:53 savvy everybody i know respects you like
43:56

43:56 besides the fact that they like you as a
43:57

43:57 person they respect your knowledge and
43:59

43:59 the way you handle yourself
44:01

44:01 um
44:02

44:02 so what are what are your habits that
44:04

44:04 help you set your day up for that kind
44:06

44:06 of success i get up at 5 30 every
44:09

44:09 morning
44:10

44:10 and i walk our two dogs
44:13

44:13 with my husband that’s our quiet time to
44:16

44:16 kind of talk and share ideas and our
44:18

44:18 plans for the day
44:20

44:20 and
44:21

44:21 um we by 6 30 a.m
44:24

44:24 we’re back home
44:25

44:25 and i picked up the wall street journal
44:28

44:28 from the driveway and i
44:31

44:31 sit outside on the patio with my wall
44:34

44:34 street journal and my coffee and i go
44:37

44:37 through the whole newspaper
44:38

44:38 and
44:39

44:39 i’m an avid clipper of articles that i
44:42

44:42 want to reread or
44:44

44:44 i read about stocks that i want to
44:45

44:45 invest in
44:46

44:46 and then i go through all my emails
44:50

44:50 and
44:53

44:53 i
44:54

44:54 what else do i do i mean
44:56

44:56 those are two key habits that i’m pretty
44:59

44:59 rigid about
45:01

45:01 what is the third one i think having
45:05

45:05 dinner with my husband every night
45:07

45:07 at a set time which is really early
45:11

45:11 and
45:12

45:12 uh that was kind of a critical part of
45:14

45:14 my growing up as always having dinner
45:17

45:17 together as a family
45:18

45:18 yeah and
45:20

45:20 we used to
45:22

45:22 you know i think i was thinking about
45:23

45:23 last summer our daughters would come
45:25

45:25 over every sunday
45:26

45:26 with their friends
45:28

45:28 and that’s another habit that i love is
45:31

45:31 being outside with the family on sunday
45:33

45:33 and having at least one day a week it’s
45:36

45:36 a family day is really important to me
45:42

45:42 [Music]

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