The Signet Podcast – Max Leaman Transcript

In this episode, Eduardo Signet speaks with Denver commercial real estate broker, landlord, and investor Stuart Zall, founder of The Zall Company.

The conversation explores how relationships, tenant selection, networking, mentorship, long-term ownership, and neighborhood-building shape success in commercial real estate. Stuart shares lessons from his career in retail leasing, property ownership, Denver development, international projects, and the practical realities of working with landlords, tenants, brokers, contractors, and emerging brands.

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Podcast transcript

SIGNET: Stuart, thank you for coming. I have so much to ask you. I want to introduce you as the broker and landlord in the Denver market, although you do brokerage and properties everywhere, including a deal in China. You have quite a lot of experience. Do you want to say a little bit about yourself or introduce yourself?

STUART ZALL:

I am Stuart Zall, founder of The Zall Company, which I founded in 2000.
I did not grow up expecting to go into real estate, and I did not come from a multigenerational real estate family.
I studied accounting at the University of Denver, got my CPA, and started at Arthur Andersen, but I lasted only about a year.
I moved into real estate almost by accident after helping Steve Gettleman with accounting on a strip center, then being asked to help lease it by calling people from the phone book.
I learned by u201cdialing for dollars,u201d got results, and eventually moved through Lakeside Mall, Taubman, and outlet-mall projects around the country.
Taubman taught me the art of leasing, merchandising, and building tenant relationships across multiple markets.
In 2000, when my firm was bought, I chose to start my own business instead of moving, and the business grew from hired-gun leasing work into a brokerage company.
Along the way, I started buying properties when opportunities came up, often through partnerships, because I believe successful brokers should have some investment exposure to commercial real estate.
I eventually bought the Larimer building where we are now, partly because I needed space for my own company and could lease the rest to another tenant.
Having a storefront and a sign on the street has changed the business because people now drive by, see the company, and call.

SIGNET: It is so interesting. I love this area. I have been here a few times and have been to the restaurants. I did not realize everything was right on this block, like Barcelona, Federales, and other places. It is a cool part of town. How did you know this was going to become that?

STUART ZALL:

Sometimes you get lucky.
A friend from New York, Stephanie Rubenstein, was representing a concept connected to the founder of Lululemon, and they wanted a gritty part of town for a millennial worker-focused concept.
At that time, Larimer Street was very rough; Denver Central Market was not open, and there was very little there besides Ratio Brewery.
My friend saw something in the area that reminded her of Brooklyn, and I trusted her perspective even though I did not fully see it myself at first.
I made it a quest to find a building in that area, and we got what I believe is one of the best blocks on Larimer Street in RiNo.
When I bought the building, I was nervous enough that I did not tell my wife exactly where it was at first.
The area still has city challenges, but the building has worked out extremely well.
My advice is not to overanalyze real estate; sometimes you have to find it, take the risk, and let time work for you.
Real estate is scary because you are putting a lot at risk, but time can become your best friend if you take the chance.

SIGNET: You hit on so many points I want to talk about. Mentorship is one. First, can you talk about your mentors and the values you learned in your training with Taubman? You have also been a mentor for me in Denver, and I have met many people you have mentored who became incredibly successful. What qualities do you look for in people that lead them to success?

STUART ZALL:

I think it starts with heart.
If you have passion for what you do, then it does not feel like work.
You need drive, passion, and the ability to dream.
I think younger people are missing face-to-face communication because so much is done through texting, Instagram, and efficient digital communication.
When I started, even sending someone a picture of a space took days, and that slower process created dialogue and relationship-building.
Today, information can be sent instantly, but the relationship process can be lost.
Networking begins with meeting people and building relationships.
I try to create platforms, such as breakfasts, where people can meet others who may help advance their careers.
If you want to make deals, you need to put yourself where decision-makers are, such as shopping-center conventions and industry events.
You should not only spend time with people you already know; you should try to meet as many people as possible and then follow through.
Many deals begin with a cup of coffee, a handshake, or simply bumping into someone.

SIGNET: I love the idea of networking outside your own category. Developers often network with developers, and brokers often network with brokers. I have looked at finance events and capital groups because you get exposure to different people and make different links. One thing I have heard you say is that you never know where a deal is going to come from, and it is about being there. Is that one of the ideas?

STUART ZALL:

I learned something from doing business in China: if you are in a room where everyone speaks English, you are less valuable, but if you are the one person who speaks a language no one else speaks, you become extremely valuable.
I apply that metaphor to real estate networking.
If I am in a room full of brokers, everyone already understands leasing, so I am less differentiated.
If I am in a room where no one understands what I do, then I may be able to provide something valuable.
I like working with contractors, architects, finance people, and others connected to real estate but not doing the exact same thing.
I see networking as collaboration, where different people can benefit from different parts of the same opportunity.
I try to pay it forward by connecting general contractors or other professionals with people who may help them, without keeping a strict scorecard.
Those relationships often come back in useful ways, even if not immediately.
Mentoring people is not just telling them what to do; it is encouraging them to go out, network, socialize, talk to people, and learn from events.
As an example, I paid to meet Danny Meyer at an event, got a signed book, introduced myself, and created a connection that later became useful.
You cannot build those kinds of connections if you only sit in the audience; sometimes you need to go to the front and introduce yourself.

SIGNET: You talked about win-win situations. One thing you have said before, and I have seen you do, is that you want your tenants, your clients, and the people you represent to win. You have said that after the lease is signed and the commission is done, that is when you start to work by helping promote them, because if they expand, they are going to call you. What do you do after the lease is signed, since they still have so much to do?

STUART ZALL:

You can go too far and become your clientu2019s outsourced administrative staff, so you should not go looking for trouble.
It is still important to check in and help when there are problems.
I try to guide clients toward good people, such as reliable liquor-license attorneys, contractors, or other professionals.
I prefer to give clients two or three strong referrals rather than just one, so they can do their own homework and choose.
My role is to point them toward people who are tried and true, not to make every decision for them.
Most of the help is needed between signing the lease and opening the store.
After opening, I cannot solve every operational problem, such as labor or marketing, but I can pick up the phone and be available.
Signing a lease can be a multimillion-dollar commitment, so I want the tenant to succeed.
I once helped a restaurant franchisee renegotiate terms and work through problems even though I technically represented the landlord.
A lot of salespeople disappear after they get paid, but we want continuity, repeat business, and clients who know we tried to help.
At the core, I see our work as solving problems.

SIGNET: I love the way your brain thinks. You are very creative. Taking a wider-angle point of view, why commercial versus residential? I love commercial, but I am curious why you chose that path.

STUART ZALL:

Triple-net leases are a major reason.
I had experience with residential early on, including buying condos during a period when banks wanted properties off their books.
At one point, I had about 50 condos with a partner.
Residential was more management-intensive, especially before todayu2019s technology made banking and administration easier.
I do not have the patience for residential.
Commercial is more interesting to me because I am fascinated by businesses, retail, and how those businesses operate.
I moved most of my residential holdings into commercial projects over time.
In commercial, if a store does not work out for an operator with many stores, it is usually not as emotionally catastrophic as something going wrong with someoneu2019s home.
Residential deals involve peopleu2019s shelter and can be more personal and stressful.

SIGNET: In commercial real estate, what trends are you looking out for? We have tariffs, the internet has been affecting retail for a while, and there are other forces in the market.

STUART ZALL:

People have probably been worrying about the future of retail and commerce since ancient times.
Humans will always need commerce in one form or another.
There will be AI, headwinds, and other changes, and the key is to keep pivoting.
If you sit back and do nothing, you are going to be dead.
COVID was a major test for restaurants, and the smart operators quickly moved into patio seating, takeout, and alcohol-to-go where allowed.
Apparel is changing because so much can be bought online, but people still shop when traveling or looking for experiences.
Food still has to be made somewhere, even if DoorDash or another service delivers it.
I think ghost kitchens have mostly been a bust because people still need to see, experience, and trust a restaurant.
Food, entertainment, and apparel will remain, but models may change, stores may get smaller, and department stores need to reinvent themselves.

SIGNET: I am loving these public markets you see everywhere. I drove up and down the coast, and places like San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara have public markets. Here there is The Hangar and Edgewater. I love those developments because they have synergy together if they are done well. Colorado Mills may have been an example of that 15 or 20 years ago.

STUART ZALL:

Denver is often a poster child for jumping on trends harder than other cities.
We probably overdid the public market and food hall concept.
Some public markets and food halls are winners, but others do not work.
It is not enough to build a food hall and assume people will show up.
You still have to put real thought into the concept, location, tenant mix, and execution.
Denver Central Market and Edgewater are strong examples.
Some others have gone out of business, which shows the model is not automatically successful.
If the concept is done right, it can work very well.

SIGNET: Your company has come such a long way. I think it is incredible that you started as an accountant, which uses a certain type of brain, and then went into such a relationship-heavy business. What qualities did you bring from accounting into your current work?

STUART ZALL:

I can understand financial statements, accounts receivable, and the basic mechanics of a business.
That is valuable because many brokers do not really understand the business side.
I understand operating properties and mortgages.
At the same time, I outsource almost everything that is not one of my strengths.
I use an outsourced bookkeeper and outsourced graphic arts help.
I know I need to work within my strengths.
Running numbers and detailed accounting work are not where I perform best now, even though the background helps.

SIGNET: I have a personal question that I think applies well to the podcast. Hiring people and managing people is really a talent. There is a reason CEOs sometimes manage managers, and managers manage individuals. How do you develop the skills needed to manage people? If you do not do that right, your business suffers and you reach dead ends.

STUART ZALL:

Managing people is a real challenge.
I believe there may be some force or timing that helps you find what you need when you need it.
About a year ago, I hit a wall because sales were down and I was struggling to motivate the team.
Our leasing meetings were not productive, and people, including me, were distracted.
I realized I needed a coach.
I met Steve Benoit from Crafted Consultants through my son and later sat down with him for coffee.
Steve explained a structured process for working with people, and I decided to try it even though it was not cheap.
He has become a meaningful part of the team.
We now have mandatory Monday meetings, with no cell phones, where each agent reviews what they said they would do and whether they got it done.
We also have one-on-one status updates and KPIs.
One KPI is getting one positive Google review per month from each person, which helps the company cast a wider net.
We now track deals by quarter instead of just doing deals without tracking them.
The coaching and structure have been important to our growth.

SIGNET: I asked that because I am managing a construction project in Pebble Beach right now, and you manage subs and contractors. Many people I have interviewed say their success is due to the people they hire. A lot of it is finding the right people with drive, quality, and pride in workmanship. It is hard to find those people because everyone wants to present themselves that way, but not everyone is that person.

STUART ZALL:

A lot of hiring is trial and error.
We now have an onboarding sheet and an interview sheet that lists what we are looking for.
You can also overanalyze hiring.
Right now, we are at capacity and do not have room for more people unless we build up or expand.
I am willing to take a chance on a lot of people.
Many people in the industry probably got their start with me.
In the past, I may not have had the tools to mentor and coach people properly, so I probably lost some talented people.
If you love what you do, it is not work.
I work in some form seven days a week because I am always available and always thinking about how brokers can be more productive.
I do not only think about their productivity in terms of my own income; I want them to succeed.
People are giving me their time and part of their lives, especially when they are young.
Even if someone only stays with me for a year, two years, or three years, I want them to leave with skills that help them succeed elsewhere.
At Arthur Andersen, many good accountants eventually went to work for clients, and the firm saw that as creating a friend at that company.
I see former employees similarly: if they leave and succeed, the relationship may help both of us later.
I do not expect anyone to give me their entire life, but I want their time with us to be productive.

SIGNET: You said you are at capacity. Where do you want to go from here? What is really good now, and what do you want your legacy to be? That is a two-for-one question, but they are different intentions.

STUART ZALL:

I am having a lot of fun and enjoying what is happening.
We are working on projects with the Orlando Magic, which has been very cool.
I have partners outside my company, including Dan Nelson and Neil Berkowitz, who help expand our bandwidth.
I like the arena and sports district space and see it as an area for future growth.
Many arenas are moving back into central business districts, which creates opportunities around live music, sports, restaurants, retail, and event traffic.
Time is precious for people, so projects that combine sports, entertainment, food, and retail can create strong commercial environments.
We do a lot of leasing downtown, in RiNo, and in Cherry Creek, and I want us to continue being a leader in those markets.
Downtown Denver still has a lot of opportunity, despite lingering perceptions from COVID, crime, and 16th Street Mall disruption.
When you lease space and bring in a store or restaurant, you can change a neighborhood for better or worse.
A lease such as Mendocino Farms in Cherry Creek changes the everyday experience of a neighborhood by adding a useful commerce point.
My legacy is not about ego; it is about improving the city or the commercial playground I work in.
Early in my career, I was focused on getting paid, but over time I came to care more about the type of tenant and whether they improve the neighborhood.
A street full of banks may pay rent, but it does not create the same neighborhood energy as coffee shops, restaurants, and places to shop.
The goal is to help create neighborhoods where people feel commerce, culture, and activity.

SIGNET: The tenants really give a neighborhood its feel u2014 the restaurants, bars, and different spots.

STUART ZALL:

The right tenant mix creates a good environment.
When neighborhoods improve through thoughtful retail and restaurant leasing, everyone benefits.

SIGNET: I was listening to another interview you did, and you said 2010 was a hard year after the Great Recession. How did you survive that, and what advice would you give to other people in future recessions?

STUART ZALL:

Praying is real.
If you have your health, you should not let your stock account or money account consume you.
Do not listen to all the background noise.
I do not watch much news because it can become distracting and negative.
In our business, the recession showed up late because commissions often take six months to a year to come in.
2009 was still fine, but in 2010 nothing was coming in.
I tried to get exposure by writing articles and appearing in trade magazines.
A partner and I wrote an article about repositioning malls, and someone from China called asking whether we could do that work there.
Our default answer was yes, even when we had to figure out how to execute afterward.
We needed demographic and psychographic data in China, which was difficult to get, but a colleague connected us with someone who did data work in Asia and had gone to the University of Denver.
We partnered with him, created a merchandising plan, and the client then asked whether we could lease the project.
The project was in Xiu2019an, which was connected to the Terracotta Warriors and the Silk Road.
I used my U.S. relationships with brands to find the right international contacts and started leasing the project.
I worked between China and Denver, using a Wi-Fi phone line with a Denver number so clients did not know I was overseas.
The project was ultimately scrapped because housing became more lucrative for the developer, but we had been paid in advance.
By the time that project ended, the U.S. economy had improved.
That experience helped us survive and led to work in places such as Puerto Rico and Hawaii.

SIGNET: I do residential in Europe, but it is interesting because that is another market. Even here, RiNo and Cherry Creek feel like different markets because the tenants are different. You deal with a lot of high-end, popular, and trendy tenants.

STUART ZALL:

I would not call most of our work true luxury, like Gucci or Hermu00e8s, because Denver is not a very luxury-heavy market.
We work more with upper-moderate and emerging brands.
That includes brands like Lululemon, North Face, Birkenstock, and other better brands.
I also love working with immigrants because many of them are fearless.
Some people create businesses because they may not have the same access to conventional jobs, and they are willing to take chances.
Those chances sometimes turn into great businesses.
I have worked with clients from one store to very large store counts, and it is rewarding to watch a brand grow.
It is interesting and fun to see a person or brand evolve from one location into something much larger.

SIGNET: That is part of their story. I think you did that with H&M, where you had the first one in Colorado.

STUART ZALL:

We did the first H&M in Colorado.
H&M has withstood the stress of downtown.
We also brought Uniqlo to downtown Denver, although it unfortunately closed during COVID.
Forever 21 was another example.
No brand lasts forever, but if you can get 15 years or more out of a brand, that can still be meaningful.

SIGNET: Thinking about the 16th Street Mall, coming from Los Angeles, what is the secret? In LA, it is very hard to turn around cities, maybe because of bureaucracy or something else. Here, you have the Downtown Denver Partnership and developers working with political bodies. What is the secret to turning around a place like that?

STUART ZALL:

Comparing Los Angeles and Denver is difficult because Los Angeles County is massive and harder to move.
Denver is smaller and more nimble.
Denver has a lot of downtown history.
Union Station was critical to Denveru2019s growth and connects directly to the 16th Street Mall.
The redevelopment of Union Station was a beautiful project.
Historically, the railroad helped Denver grow because the rail route came through Denver instead of elsewhere.
Larimer Street and downtown Denver developed around rail traffic, travelers, and the commerce they needed.
Denver has historic assets, including Larimer Square and older buildings, that give it a character beyond steel, brick, and glass.
The city has serious struggles, including high minimum wages and permitting timelines, but there are good people who believe in downtown.
With the 16th Street Mall work completed or nearing completion, I expect to see more positive activity in the next couple of years.

SIGNET: It is a great area. I lived near Union Station and would jog through 16th Street. That area has completely changed, with Whole Foods, the train, and a safer environment.

STUART ZALL:

During COVID, Denver dropped its guard and got hit on multiple levels.
The trend is now improving.
Some older office buildings may be converted to residential if conversion is feasible.
There is still a need for housing, even if apartment rents are currently soft.
I expect the need for apartments to continue as the city grows.

SIGNET: Prices have come up a lot since then too.

STUART ZALL:

Prices have come up, and interest rates are another obstacle.
Every generation has something that gets in the way.
I often hear people say something is too expensive and that they will wait for prices to come down.
In the long run, saving a relatively small amount on price may matter less when amortized over decades.

SIGNET: I once heard that it is not timing the market, it is time in the market. It is the same principle.

STUART ZALL:

Jordan Perlmutter once told me that some real estate projects succeed because of timing.
Even if you do not time it perfectly, real estate is a long game.
It is like golf: people focus on individual shots, but real estate has waves.
There are periods when you can make a lot of money quickly, but overall you need a long-term view.
If you take the long view, you have a better chance of being successful.

SIGNET: It seems like that is also what you do with your investments. Originally, the name of this podcast was u201cThe Long-Term Real Estate Investor,u201d because thinking long term removes some of the pressure around things like IRR calculations. If you have a 100-year business plan, it changes the mentality. I feel that in your investing and leasing, it is always long term, and there are also a lot of transaction costs in trying to flip.

STUART ZALL:

In commercial real estate, long-term thinking is important.
Because I did not come from a real estate family, I had to start by planting seeds myself.
It would have been nice to walk into an existing forest, but I had to begin building it over time.

SIGNET: It is tricky too, because when you are starting out, how are you going to buy something without financing? A lot of times the long-term plan is to get rid of financing so you have more stability and the bumps in the road are not as dramatic. Let me ask you the wrap-up questions. What was the number-one deal that changed your career, taught you the most, or had the most impact on you?

STUART ZALL:

The most important turning point was not really a deal; it was going to work for the Taubman Company.
That job was transformational because it taught me how to lease not just to fill space, but to create neighborhoods.
When I was about 27, I met a friend at a restaurant called Fresh Choice, saw a huge line, and asked about the owner.
I had just taken a job involving two malls, and within about 30 days I made two deals with that restaurant operator.
That happened because I asked a question when the opportunity was right in front of me.
Sometimes you are on the one-yard line and only need to ask the question.
Over my career, I did several deals with that operator, so that became an important relationship and an important early lesson.

SIGNET: What are your three key daily habits that have made you successful? I am always curious what time people wake up, whether they meditate, read a certain newspaper, or spend family time.

STUART ZALL:

I do not read a newspaper.
I get up early, usually around five.
My most productive time is between about five and eight in the morning.
I try to filter out negative noise because there is always a lot of it.
I would tell people not to listen to all the noise that is designed to stop them.
I try to stay positive.
I meditate for about ten minutes almost every day.
I use paper and pencil to write things down, even with all the CRMs and technology available.
I try to be thankful.
I remind myself that there are many opportunities available and that people do not need to stay stuck.
I try to wake up with a smile and a mindset of taking on the world, even if some days are harder by the end.

SIGNET: Final question: what would you say to a young individual who wanted to start in the real estate business? They might not know whether they want to be a broker, investor, or what segment to focus on. How would they find their path?

STUART ZALL:

I would tell them not to be afraid.
If they need to live at their parentsu2019 house or drive Uber while getting started, they should do what they need to do.
They should absorb as much information as possible.
There is so much information available now that they do not even have to subscribe to everything to learn.
They should become an expert at something and become the go-to person in that area.
They should not try to do everything.
They should find one area and try to be the best at it.
They need passion for the business.
If they think of it only as a job, they are in the wrong business.
It is always a good time to get into real estate, and bad times can actually be the best times to start.

SIGNET: Stuart, thank you so much. We could do round two another time. Thank you for joining the podcast, and hopefully we will grab dinner soon.

STUART ZALL:

I hope so.

INTERVIEWER u2014 SPEAKER UNCERTAIN: Bonus question: what are your thoughts about the new Burnham Yard deal and what it is going to do for downtown?

STUART ZALL:

I do not know exactly how it will affect downtown, but I think it will be very positive for Burnham Yard.
Burnham Yard feels like one of the last major pieces of Denver that has not really been developed.
A key question is what happens to the area where the stadium is now if activity shifts.
I think the project will not hurt downtown because people will still come downtown, and the distance may not be dramatically different.
Large investments, such as a multibillion-dollar stadium, create a multiplier effect that benefits many people.
I do worry about displacement, especially for people who currently live nearby and may have cheaper rent.
Growth can be positive, but people still need places to live.
Denver has done some work around affordable housing, but development can still affect neighborhoods.
I think developers and stakeholders need to think carefully about who is affected.
Overall, I think the project is good, but I hope there is thoughtful attention to housing and displacement.

00:00 this episode Max he’s awesome one of my
00:04

00:04 first friends growing up you’ll hear
00:05

00:05 about it in the show okay so max is an
00:07

00:07 incredible story because he started off
00:09

00:09 as a mortgage loan officer and he was
00:11

00:11 able to scale his business over time
00:14

00:14 he’s really the epitome of how to build
00:16

00:16 a great business in real estate take a
00:18

00:18 look for
00:29

00:29 yourself
00:31

00:31 right here we
00:32

00:32 [Music]
00:33

00:33 go Max what’s up man how’s it going bro
00:36

00:36 it’s good it’s good it’s good to see you
00:38

00:38 youo I know that we’re doing this I
00:40

00:40 can’t believe it so I kind of have to
00:41

00:41 share that Max was my first friend when
00:44

00:44 I moved to America as two or three years
00:46

00:46 old uh I didn’t speak any English he
00:48

00:48 didn’t speak any Spanish I still don’t
00:51

00:51 and really yeah I’ve heard you speak
00:54

00:54 Spanish couple words here and there
00:56

00:56 that’s good enough I mean that’s like me
00:58

00:58 I could have forgot a lot of my Spanish
00:59

00:59 unfortunately people speak English back
01:01

01:01 to me when I speak in Spanish I’m like
01:03

01:03 it’s that bad really that sucks I love
01:05

01:05 it man I love what you built it’s an
01:07

01:07 honor to be here I’m so happy that
01:08

01:08 you’re letting me do this and you know
01:10

01:10 you’ve told me a little bit about your
01:11

01:11 story in the past and it’s really a a
01:14

01:14 crazy success story and uh I don’t know
01:17

01:17 do you want to sort of talk about your
01:19

01:19 company what you’ve done how you got
01:21

01:21 here yeah yeah so uh lone people is my
01:24

01:24 company uh we uh opened our doors
01:26

01:26 January 2020 wow um I started as officer
01:30

01:30 in
01:31

01:31 2001 um wow and uh Through The Years
01:35

01:35 just kind of built uh built up the team
01:38

01:38 and uh my girlfriend at the time now
01:41

01:41 wife Dana uh she joined in
01:44

01:44 2009 and really started doing a lot of
01:47

01:47 marketing for us and I was always a
01:49

01:49 really good technician and she’s an
01:51

01:51 amazing uh marketing person uh and when
01:54

01:54 we put those together this thing just
01:56

01:56 kind of
01:57

01:57 exploded fast forward Leman team had
01:59

01:59 become you know number one in Texas and
02:01

02:01 top 10 in the nation for around 10 years
02:04

02:04 uh in a row um and uh we decided it you
02:09

02:09 know eventually it was just like look
02:10

02:10 let’s just do this on our own and let’s
02:11

02:11 build a platform we call it flow blow
02:14

02:14 for loan officers by loan officers yeah
02:17

02:17 um and uh have a have a platform where
02:20

02:20 loan officers can come it’s extremely
02:22

02:22 transparent you can see everything
02:24

02:24 there’s not a lot of layers of
02:25

02:25 management so it allows our pricing to
02:27

02:27 be super aggressive um and then get the
02:30

02:30 loan officers to join us the same
02:32

02:32 marketing machine and materials that
02:34

02:34 allowed Leman team to get to 300 500 and
02:38

02:38 then in 2021 700 million wow uh in
02:41

02:41 production so that’s uh that’s what we
02:43

02:43 did we started it and opened the doors
02:46

02:46 January 2020 and uh didn’t know what was
02:48

02:48 going to happen uh pandemic hit that was
02:51

02:51 pretty scary yeah um and then things
02:54

02:54 exploded um we’re fortunate enough to
02:57

02:57 grow and we’ve started adding branches
02:59

02:59 in 2021 and in 2022 and 2023 and and so
03:03

03:03 you know we’re growing from here I think
03:05

03:05 what’s kind of inspiring to me about
03:07

03:07 that and I think sometimes people have
03:09

03:09 these Big Dreams to be maybe where
03:12

03:12 you’re at and where a lot of people have
03:14

03:14 arrived at the thing is that it’s it’s
03:17

03:17 hard to get there in terms of you you
03:20

03:20 started with a mortgage company you
03:22

03:22 built your team you built your business
03:24

03:24 and circumstances just LED you to where
03:26

03:26 you are here coming straight here would
03:28

03:28 have been very difficult and seeing the
03:31

03:31 choices you made the risks you took
03:33

03:33 throughout that time yeah I mean that’s
03:36

03:36 that’s the way to do it you know you
03:37

03:37 shouldn’t I think ere extend yourself if
03:41

03:41 you’re not ready to go there and people
03:43

03:43 want to go there and I get it but I mean
03:45

03:45 when you started loan people you had a
03:48

03:48 client base and people come to you
03:51

03:51 because it’s you right and um how you
03:54

03:54 treat them yeah and uh and even your
03:57

03:57 employees I mean the the four loan
03:59

03:59 officers by loan officers I think the
04:03

04:03 the culture you’ve cultivated and that
04:05

04:05 you try to cultivate it transcends to
04:08

04:08 your clients yeah so I think that’s
04:09

04:09 really special um and you keep you know
04:12

04:12 you keep your clients happy that way and
04:13

04:13 you do you work hard for them no and
04:16

04:16 that’s that’s kind of the thing right
04:17

04:17 it’s always uh we not me you know this
04:20

04:20 is everything’s about the team you know
04:23

04:23 um whether it’s loan officers processors
04:26

04:26 Underwriters at the end of the day Clos
04:28

04:28 or secondary we’re all working together
04:30

04:30 for the same goal uh and we’re all one
04:33

04:33 team and everybody really needs to be
04:36

04:36 bought into that for it to work um you
04:39

04:39 know and and along those lines we’ve
04:41

04:41 kind of decided you know loan people is
04:42

04:42 not a company for everybody um you may
04:46

04:46 be the highest producer in the world or
04:48

04:48 you may be the best underwriter in the
04:49

04:49 world or the fastest closer in the world
04:52

04:52 but if you can’t be nice and respectful
04:54

04:54 then you just can’t work here and and um
04:56

04:56 you know for us it’s all about the team
04:58

04:58 environment and working together and
05:01

05:01 getting along being respectful everybody
05:04

05:04 really vying for that same goal um so
05:08

05:08 that’s that’s that’s what we’re building
05:10

05:10 right yeah that makes total sense I uh I
05:13

05:13 love how you talk about your wife that
05:14

05:14 she was the marketing expert and I was
05:18

05:18 going to ask you this question because
05:19

05:19 to build a business and to be a loan
05:21

05:21 officer you have to be organized and
05:24

05:24 very structurally you have to be able to
05:26

05:26 think very
05:27

05:27 structurally that’s the opposite of
05:29

05:29 creativity mhm I was wondering how you
05:31

05:31 balance those two and when you pick like
05:33

05:33 which brain to use you know it’s
05:35

05:35 interesting so obviously I’ve had a lot
05:37

05:37 of help um uh a lot of people along the
05:40

05:40 way have helped us build this company um
05:43

05:43 director of operations coo um it
05:46

05:46 definitely wasn’t just me right um what
05:48

05:48 I find that I’m really good at uh is
05:50

05:50 finding good smart people to help and
05:53

05:53 things that I don’t know how to do or
05:55

05:55 that I’m not good at doing right um you
05:57

05:57 know as a loan officer when we first
05:59

05:59 started the company I was the number one
06:02

06:02 I was number one in sales uh and kind of
06:05

06:05 balancing the role of even I want to get
06:08

06:08 this loan done do I have a sellable loan
06:11

06:11 uh was a very interesting Dynamic for me
06:13

06:13 to start to deal with because as a loan
06:15

06:15 officer every deal works you want every
06:17

06:17 deal to close right but as an
06:19

06:19 underwriter you the underwriter’s job is
06:22

06:22 to protect the company and make sure
06:23

06:23 that you’re not originating a loan that
06:25

06:25 doesn’t that won’t sell right uh and
06:27

06:27 then as the owner of the company I don’t
06:29

06:29 want to get stuck with a loan that I
06:30

06:30 can’t sell because now I’ve got that
06:31

06:31 loan on my books and I’m out that cash
06:34

06:34 and I’ve got to figure things out um so
06:37

06:37 I’ve really learned along the
06:38

06:38 way by listening to everybody around me
06:41

06:41 and taking advice from people around me
06:44

06:44 when I need to kind of put that hat on
06:47

06:47 or when I take that hat off and put the
06:49

06:49 creative the creative hat on um and it’s
06:52

06:52 you just kind of trial by fire right
06:54

06:54 okay that makes total sense but it’s
06:57

06:57 really I mean at the end of the day I
06:58

06:58 mean it’s really about more than
06:60

06:60 anything having the right people around
07:01

07:01 you to help you make all the right
07:04

07:04 decisions I think you know it’s funny I
07:06

07:06 talked to some business people I’m just
07:08

07:08 curious about business sometimes and I
07:10

07:10 ask a lot of they some people really
07:14

07:14 assign the value of their business to
07:15

07:15 the team that they’ve put together yeah
07:18

07:18 and they take pride in their team and
07:21

07:21 you know doing that so I think that’s
07:23

07:23 great um so did you ever what were your
07:27

07:27 goals as a young man like how did you
07:29

07:29 see yourself in the future cuz I know
07:31

07:31 you’ve you’ve had a lot of Life
07:34

07:34 Experiences uh you know I never really
07:36

07:36 knew I
07:38

07:38 knew through high school I was always a
07:41

07:41 worker you know School wasn’t really my
07:43

07:43 thing I I wanted to work I wanted to
07:45

07:45 make money I wanted to lead uh you know
07:47

07:47 I was I was a manager of a five bagel
07:50

07:50 stores in high school uh so I’d leave
07:52

07:52 school and go manage these five or six
07:54

07:54 different stores over DFW uh and I’d
07:57

07:57 have employees that were 50 and 60 and
07:59

07:59 I’d have to tell them
08:00

08:00 you know you’re overstocking here you’re
08:03

08:03 over Staffing here you’re under this and
08:05

08:05 under that and you know that was
08:06

08:06 definitely interesting as a 17-year-old
08:09

08:09 16y old telling these 50 and 60 year
08:11

08:11 olds why they’re doing things wrong and
08:13

08:13 by the way I’ve got a math test that I
08:14

08:14 got to take tomorrow right um that was
08:17

08:17 just always kind of in my
08:18

08:18 nature I always wanted to lead uh I just
08:21

08:21 kind of had an knack for it um I didn’t
08:24

08:24 know what I wanted to be right I just
08:26

08:26 knew that I wanted to ultimately be
08:30

08:30 self-employed okay um I wanted to have a
08:32

08:32 business yeah I didn’t know what that
08:34

08:34 was and for a long time I really thought
08:37

08:37 as a loan officer I was
08:39

08:39 self-employed even though I was working
08:41

08:41 for other companies which to a certain
08:43

08:43 degree was true because it’s my book a
08:45

08:45 business you know we’re generating all
08:48

08:48 those leads I’m controlling a lot of
08:50

08:50 things but through certain circumstances
08:53

08:53 I it was made very clear to me I was not
08:55

08:55 self-employed right um things were going
08:58

08:58 to be the way those companies wanted
08:60

08:60 them to be and rightfully so they were
09:02

09:02 their companies um you know so for me it
09:05

09:05 just came down to okay then I want to do
09:07

09:07 this the way I want to do this and I
09:09

09:09 kind of said if this was my
09:10

09:10 company uh I would do it this way one
09:13

09:13 too many times and decided to put my
09:14

09:14 money over my mouthless that’s the
09:16

09:16 question I was listening to another
09:18

09:18 podcast you did and you were talking
09:20

09:20 about how you started loan people in a
09:21

09:21 way because you didn’t you wanted to
09:23

09:23 decide if somebody would get a loan
09:25

09:25 still doing you know conforming to FHA
09:28

09:28 or whatever
09:31

09:31 um that you need to conform to but what
09:34

09:34 are those things that you do differently
09:36

09:36 or that you would maybe allow or that
09:38

09:38 you’re more flexible with so the biggest
09:41

09:41 key for me is transparency okay I always
09:45

09:45 and I’ve worked for some great companies
09:46

09:46 in the past and I have a lot of respect
09:48

09:48 for those companies they helped me get
09:49

09:49 to where I was yeah
09:51

09:51 but as I’ve my suspicions as a loan
09:56

09:56 officer working for a company were that
09:57

09:57 they were not being ex fully trans trans
09:59

09:59 arent there was always something being
10:01

10:01 held back right um what we’ve built here
10:04

10:04 is 100% transparent I will show people
10:07

10:07 actual pricing that I get directly from
10:09

10:09 the aggregators I will show them direct
10:11

10:11 price from Fanny I will show them
10:13

10:13 purchase advices so they can see what we
10:15

10:15 made on a sale you know for the branches
10:18

10:18 um we’re on what’s called a well back in
10:21

10:21 the day we called it a net Branch model
10:23

10:23 um but I I’ll show I’ll show a branch
10:26

10:26 exactly what corporate’s making and
10:27

10:27 exactly what we’re taking from them and
10:29

10:29 we have different mechanisms both to
10:31

10:31 keep me honest and to for them to know
10:33

10:33 that that we’re being transparent right
10:37

10:37 um I didn’t want a lot of layers of
10:39

10:39 management you know I found that having
10:41

10:41 a lot of layers of management a didn’t
10:43

10:43 do a whole lot for me as a producer and
10:47

10:47 be made my rates worse because you’ve
10:49

10:49 got to pay for all those people right um
10:52

10:52 so that was really kind of the Crux of
10:54

10:54 I’m going to just do it this way and
10:55

10:55 then everybody’s got a different level
10:57

10:57 of risk tolerance right um you know I’m
10:60

10:60 I’m my risk tolerance is pretty high you
11:03

11:03 know I’ll push the envelope pretty far
11:05

11:05 um other companies in terms of what you
11:08

11:08 could sell or in terms of well in terms
11:12

11:12 of what I think I’ll be able to sell you
11:14

11:14 know interesting so you know if we we
11:16

11:16 approve a loan we close a loan now I’ve
11:18

11:18 got to go sell that loan after the fact
11:19

11:19 so are we making
11:21

11:21 decisions uh that are going to allow us
11:24

11:24 to get a loan sold or not okay
11:26

11:26 fortunately we’ve been very lucky and
11:29

11:29 and we really haven’t had uh but a
11:31

11:31 handful of loans that had some issue at
11:33

11:33 the end that we had to deal with um but
11:36

11:36 the goal the idea is to close as many
11:38

11:38 loans as possible right um and different
11:42

11:42 companies like I said have a different
11:43

11:43 risk appetite so maybe they’ll want
11:45

11:45 certain documentation for a loan that we
11:47

11:47 might not feel is necessary or um you
11:51

11:51 know maybe they don’t want to do a loan
11:53

11:53 because they feel that there’s certain
11:55

11:55 risks of it that we might feel are not
11:58

11:58 necessarily
11:60

11:60 valid that’s interesting because that is
12:02

12:02 a unique value proposition in a way if
12:04

12:04 somebody wants to get a loan you know
12:07

12:07 you’re willing to maybe not be able to
12:09

12:09 sell it or you know willing to take the
12:11

12:11 risk of it being a harder sell or maybe
12:13

12:13 you have to offer it at a bigger
12:15

12:15 discount the reason I’m saying this is
12:17

12:17 because some people might not understand
12:19

12:19 that when you make a loan you go to sell
12:22

12:22 it and that’s kind of how mortgage Banks
12:25

12:25 work yeah I mean at the end of the day
12:27

12:27 no matter really the size of the company
12:29

12:29 that loan is getting sold right some
12:31

12:31 companies service some don’t uh we’re
12:34

12:34 working on getting our servicing but
12:36

12:36 even then you’re still selling the loan
12:38

12:38 whether you’re selling it to Fanny May
12:39

12:39 or Freddy Mack or you’re selling it to a
12:41

12:41 bank or an aggregator uh at the end of
12:43

12:43 the day someone’s buying that paper
12:45

12:45 right um are you are you originating a
12:49

12:49 loan putting a loan together that this
12:50

12:50 other institution will be willing to
12:53

12:53 purchase and sometimes what happens is
12:55

12:55 the loan gets purchased and it gets
12:57

12:57 audited down the road and a year later
12:59

12:59 Fanny or Freddy come knocking and saying
13:01

13:01 hey you have to buy this back why did
13:02

13:02 you do this you’ve got to justify what
13:05

13:05 you did right you know a year ago or a
13:07

13:07 year and a half ago right um you know so
13:10

13:10 it’s it’s managing that risk to whatever
13:13

13:13 your risk appetite is so here’s a
13:17

13:17 question I was curious about I saw it on
13:19

13:19 your uh I saw it on your website what
13:21

13:21 kind of loans do you offer I mean it’s
13:23

13:23 more than just Residential Mortgage I
13:25

13:25 saw you have a discounted cash flow or
13:27

13:27 the dcsr yeah so what that so obviously
13:30

13:30 we do we’re we’re all residential um one
13:33

13:33 to four units um we’ve got some kind of
13:38

13:38 in our back pocket some commercial stuff
13:40

13:40 but our our primary focus is one to four
13:42

13:42 unit properties uh conventional FHA VA
13:46

13:46 USDA jumbo all the normal stuff but then
13:49

13:49 a lot of what’s called non-qm so dscr
13:52

13:52 which is debt service coverage ratio
13:54

13:54 which is you can buy a rental property
13:57

13:57 and not qualify with any income uh if
13:59

13:59 you’re if if the property cash flows a
14:02

14:02 certain percentage at or above the
14:04

14:04 monthly payment um you qualify there and
14:07

14:07 obviously there’s some other
14:08

14:08 stipulations that go with that but again
14:11

14:11 the the borrower’s income doesn’t even
14:13

14:13 come into play so that’s like an asset
14:14

14:14 based lending where it’s based on the
14:16

14:16 actual yeah so we also have those too oh
14:19

14:19 that’s not no that’s not so that’s dscr
14:21

14:21 debt service coverage ratio is basically
14:23

14:23 qualifying you know if your payment’s
14:25

14:25 $2,000 a month what is the potential
14:27

14:27 rent of that property is it 2500 you
14:30

14:30 know there’s there’s formulas there that
14:32

14:32 we look at but there’s also asset
14:34

14:34 depletion where we can turn your assets
14:36

14:36 into income um we have bank statement
14:40

14:40 programs as well where you know
14:42

14:42 self-employed you know we all know
14:43

14:43 people that are self-employed right off
14:45

14:45 everything they can and tax returns
14:46

14:46 don’t necessarily look like um is not a
14:50

14:50 fair representative representation of
14:52

14:52 what their actual income is so we have
14:53

14:53 programs for that um you know we’re even
14:57

14:57 able we’ve got some options as well to
14:59

14:59 even be able to close residential loans
15:02

15:02 under an LLC which a lot of people can’t
15:03

15:03 do generally you think LLC you have to
15:06

15:06 go get a commercial loan and Commercial
15:07

15:07 loans are higher rates shorter terms
15:11

15:11 that kind of thing um we’ve got an
15:13

15:13 option for that uh we can go up to 20
15:16

15:16 finance properties versus The Fanny
15:18

15:18 Freddy regulation of of 10 and then even
15:20

15:20 a lot of jumbo lenders are are limited
15:22

15:22 to four finance properties so what’s
15:24

15:24 that what do you mean by that so a lot
15:26

15:26 of a lot of lenders have a cap on how
15:28

15:28 many fin aned properties oh really you
15:31

15:31 can have when you come to get a loan I
15:33

15:33 see yeah so if you’re an investor and
15:36

15:36 you’re buying an investment property
15:38

15:38 that’s a conforming loan and it’ll be
15:40

15:40 your 11th financed property you don’t
15:42

15:42 qualify for a fanny Freddy so you’ve got
15:44

15:44 to go some other route right um so we’ve
15:46

15:46 got a lot of different programs for
15:48

15:48 people to qualify outside the the normal
15:51

15:51 just here’s your bank statements here’s
15:53

15:53 your pay stubs here’s your tax returns
15:54

15:54 and W2s and go okay well here’s a a
15:58

15:58 current event question and I don’t know
16:00

16:00 if it’s an easy question to answer but
16:02

16:02 this whole like Bank Panic that they’re
16:05

16:05 having with Silicon Valley Bank and
16:07

16:07 First Republic Bank signature um
16:09

16:09 Signature Bank I mean I’ve I’ve heard of
16:12

16:12 different opinion what do you think of
16:13

16:13 that and how do you think that would
16:14

16:14 affect you know the over overall Market
16:17

16:17 well I think it could have been really
16:19

16:19 bad um I think that they stepped in the
16:22

16:22 biggest the biggest concern was runs on
16:24

16:24 banks yeah right uh the government did
16:27

16:27 what they had to do and step in and back
16:29

16:29 back stopped and basically insured 100%
16:31

16:31 of all depositors deposits it’s funny
16:34

16:34 too I was talking to a buddy a couple
16:36

16:36 days ago and he said did you even know
16:37

16:37 that it’s only insured up to 250 I just
16:40

16:40 always thought my money was safe I was
16:42

16:42 well yeah I did but uh you know I guess
16:44

16:44 a lot of people didn’t realize that
16:46

16:46 right um and when you have these
16:48

16:48 companies businesses that have millions
16:51

16:51 tens hundreds of millions of dollars and
16:53

16:53 all they’re going to get is 250,000 that
16:54

16:54 that’s going to break the economy and if
16:57

16:57 businesses and consumers don’t know that
17:00

17:00 their money’s safe uh they’re going to
17:02

17:02 make a run on the bank had that happened
17:05

17:05 if they didn’t step in and do what they
17:06

17:06 did as quickly as they did it would have
17:08

17:08 been really really bad yeah um
17:10

17:10 fortunately they did so it’s it’s you
17:13

17:13 know yesterday was kind of crazy this
17:14

17:14 weekend was kind of crazy but today it’s
17:17

17:17 kind of back to normal okay to a certain
17:20

17:20 degree now the FED has a decision they
17:21

17:21 have to make um you know raising the
17:25

17:25 discount raising raising the rates as
17:28

17:28 the fed’s been doing
17:29

17:29 so quickly is a what caused a lot of
17:32

17:32 these problems now you could also argue
17:35

17:35 that there was uh investment management
17:37

17:37 issues and maybe they shouldn’t have
17:38

17:38 taken such so much in long-term uh bonds
17:43

17:43 at such low rates um but the bigger
17:47

17:47 problem is also how fast the FED has
17:49

17:49 raised the rate um it’s kind of
17:52

17:52 unprecedented what they’ve been doing
17:53

17:53 they’ve been doing it to curb inflation
17:55

17:55 but now we’re at a situation where
17:57

17:57 inflation’s it can’t today
17:59

17:59 today the inflation numbers came out and
18:02

18:02 core was core CPI was hotter than
18:03

18:03 expected so inflation’s not cooling the
18:07

18:07 way that the FED wants or really that
18:08

18:08 even consumers want yeah so they’re
18:10

18:10 going to they want to continue raising
18:11

18:11 the rate but now how are they going to
18:13

18:13 do that and also keep Financial
18:15

18:15 stability in the financial markets
18:17

18:17 because you have a lot of these banks
18:18

18:18 that have um long-term Bond loans uh at
18:22

18:22 lower rates so the higher the FED raises
18:24

18:24 the rate the lower the um value of that
18:27

18:27 asset is and that that’s ultimately what
18:29

18:29 happened with um svb and the other Banks
18:32

18:32 right um you know these Banks aren’t
18:34

18:34 required to put their marketto market
18:36

18:36 value of that asset on their balance
18:39

18:39 sheet um what do you mean by Mark to
18:41

18:41 Mark well so I bought let’s let’s say
18:44

18:44 this bank had you know $2 billion dollar
18:47

18:47 that they bought and I’m just making up
18:48

18:48 numbers here so so don’t take that for
18:50

18:50 anything other than but you buy2 billion
18:53

18:53 worth of bonds at
18:55

18:55 2% and today bonds are selling for 6%
18:58

18:58 right well why would anybody buy a bond
19:01

19:01 for me at 2% they can go buy it for 6%
19:03

19:03 so now my 2% bonds are worth less than
19:06

19:06 the two billion I paid for them you have
19:08

19:08 to do the math and figure out what are
19:09

19:09 they worth if those bonds are at 6% so
19:11

19:11 Mark to Mark is when you so the mark to
19:13

19:13 Market is the value of it today yeah
19:16

19:16 right okay that makesense and they don’t
19:18

19:18 have to put those they don’t have to put
19:20

19:20 that loss on their balance sheet so
19:22

19:22 their balance sheet still reflected the
19:24

19:24 $2 billion again madeup number that was
19:27

19:27 on right uh um that they that they had
19:31

19:31 invested in those bonds yeah um people
19:34

19:34 got wind of it um it was interesting
19:36

19:36 actually I heard I heard somebody’s
19:38

19:38 theory is Kramer came out on February
19:40

19:40 8th and said svb is a great buy and all
19:42

19:42 this stuff a lot of people been talking
19:43

19:43 about that but one person said you know
19:46

19:46 that actually drove people to figure out
19:48

19:48 what was going on because a lot of
19:49

19:49 people started looking in and thinking
19:50

19:50 maybe I’ll buy this I don’t know how
19:52

19:52 true this is I thought it was an
19:53

19:53 interesting Theory um and then you know
19:55

19:55 you’ve got guys like Peter teal who are
19:58

19:58 very influen
19:59

19:59 and started people Wednesdays last we
20:02

20:02 hey uh this doesn’t look right you need
20:04

20:04 to start pulling your money and that’s
20:05

20:05 essentially what caused the run right
20:07

20:07 people started pulling out their
20:08

20:08 deposits very quickly the bank then had
20:11

20:11 to go sell these bonds that aren’t worth
20:13

20:13 what they paid for them because rates
20:14

20:14 have come up so quickly to cover their
20:16

20:16 capital reserve requirements and the
20:19

20:19 whole thing cascaded so that’s that’s
20:21

20:21 where we are so going back to something
20:23

20:23 because you sort of talked about it
20:25

20:25 right now and I don’t know this it’s
20:26

20:26 just interesting to me yeah you know
20:28

20:28 people think that uh things kind of stay
20:31

20:31 the same when there’s a recession but
20:33

20:33 and I don’t know if there is
20:35

20:35 a a a trend of thing or pattern that
20:38

20:38 Banks follow when times are a little bit
20:40

20:40 rougher I don’t know if it’s still
20:42

20:42 called The Matrix but you know Banks or
20:44

20:44 lenders have certain
20:46

20:46 requirements during a downturn yeah
20:49

20:49 what’s the nature of the Beast like what
20:50

20:50 indicators or what res do the reserve
20:52

20:52 requirements change interest rates
20:54

20:54 change well interest rates change yeah
20:56

20:56 but I mean the first thing that starts
20:57

20:57 happening is Right everything everything
20:58

20:58 starts tightening so there’s less
20:60

20:60 liquidity less Capital uh so Banks
21:03

21:03 aren’t as apt to make loans so
21:05

21:05 guidelines tighten up guidelines though
21:07

21:07 is it like lending guidelin yeah well I
21:09

21:09 mean the bank’s appetite what’s what’s
21:11

21:11 the bank trying to do I mean a lot of
21:13

21:13 these Banks um you know can make up
21:15

21:15 their own rules they put it in their
21:16

21:16 portfolio it’s their money um but when
21:19

21:19 liquidity dries up um they can’t make as
21:22

21:22 many loans so they have to be tighter on
21:25

21:25 what they’ll allow for loans see the
21:26

21:26 whole thing is with the banking
21:27

21:27 Institution deposits are a liability for
21:30

21:30 a bank as a consumer you go and put your
21:33

21:33 money in the bank the bank then has to
21:34

21:34 go do something with that money to earn
21:37

21:37 money so they lend it out they make
21:39

21:39 loans they invest in t- bills and
21:42

21:42 different things well as there’s less
21:44

21:44 money flowing into the bank there’s less
21:47

21:47 that they can do uh svb’s problem was
21:50

21:50 they took on too much too many deposits
21:52

21:52 too quickly and had to do something with
21:55

21:55 them so in a recession when all of this
21:57

21:57 When there’s less money in the bank and
21:59

21:59 people don’t have as much money saved uh
22:01

22:01 the banks are not as able to lend out as
22:03

22:03 much money to as many people so they
22:05

22:05 tighten up their guidelines yeah what
22:07

22:07 what will also start happening in a
22:09

22:09 recession though uh you’ll start to see
22:11

22:11 it and you can see it over the history
22:12

22:12 of time during a recession morgage rates
22:15

22:15 they fall they come down right you know
22:17

22:17 so for my business you don’t want to
22:20

22:20 wish for recession and there’s a lot of
22:22

22:22 difficult things going on right now and
22:23

22:23 and you know we talk we’d give up 20 and
22:26

22:26 21 for five 2018s right
22:28

22:28 um but there’s also light at the end of
22:30

22:30 the tunnel because when we are in a
22:33

22:33 recession and maybe we’re there now um
22:36

22:36 rates will rates will come down happens
22:38

22:38 every time right oh really okay yeah
22:41

22:41 that’s what’s interesting and that’s
22:42

22:42 what when you said you started in 2020
22:45

22:45 uh 2001 2001 your mortgage so you’ve s
22:48

22:48 you’ve been through Cycles I mean you
22:50

22:50 kind of there’s a certain I think uh
22:53

22:53 sophistication or at least education you
22:55

22:55 get when you’ve actually lived through
22:57

22:57 them being invested or in the real
22:59

22:59 estate world because you see you see the
23:02

23:02 devastation but you also see topics that
23:04

23:04 you might not see in like a a hot you
23:07

23:07 know we’ve had a decade and a half
23:08

23:08 primarily of of like things just going
23:11

23:11 up and up and up and so a lot of people
23:13

23:13 don’t talk I mean I was talking to a
23:15

23:15 friend about inflation in 19 you know
23:17

23:17 vulker 1979 and now he and he was like
23:19

23:19 oh it’s never going to happen again why
23:21

23:21 do you always talk about anomalies two
23:22

23:22 months later I mean it was silly not to
23:25

23:25 to talk about it they were printing so
23:26

23:26 much money it was like I was talking to
23:29

23:29 my dad earlier and I was saying you know
23:31

23:31 we’re talking about the rates and maybe
23:33

23:33 they’re going to go down or go up you
23:35

23:35 don’t know because they might want to
23:36

23:36 make the bonds a little bit more
23:38

23:38 valuable to stop potential other you
23:40

23:40 know other Banks from failing and so
23:44

23:44 yeah they might cut rates I mean we we
23:45

23:45 don’t know what’s going to happen we
23:47

23:47 don’t we don’t um you know mortgage
23:50

23:50 rates follow inflation the fact you can
23:53

23:53 look at any chart with inflation and you
23:55

23:55 can follow mortgage rates TR mortgage
23:57

23:57 rate trends yeah and they follow it
23:60

23:60 except during quantitive easing so if
24:02

24:02 you go look at a chart between 2000
24:05

24:05 January 2000 and January 2022 the Fed
24:08

24:08 was buying up trillions of dollars of
24:10

24:10 mortgage back Securities uh and
24:12

24:12 treasuries which was keeping mortgage
24:13

24:13 rates artificially low right so when you
24:15

24:15 go look at those charts that that show
24:17

24:17 you inflation coming up but mortgage
24:19

24:19 rate staying down once the FED stopped
24:21

24:21 buying mortgage back Securities uh in
24:24

24:24 2022 rat started to catch up rates
24:27

24:27 started coming up pretty quick
24:29

24:29 then inflation started getting real hot
24:31

24:31 real fast and rates came up higher than
24:35

24:35 they’ve been you know in in 15 years
24:39

24:39 when I got in the business if I could
24:41

24:41 get you 7% you were amazed and this was
24:44

24:44 in 2001 and then I’d have to go back and
24:47

24:47 look but I feel like you know it’s
24:49

24:49 probably around
24:51

24:51 2004 200 2005 we started really seeing
24:54

24:54 rates get into the fives yeah uh and
24:57

24:57 then the fours and then the threes and
24:59

24:59 then the fours again and there was two
25:01

25:01 days in 2018 where rates broke 5% and
25:03

25:03 everyone that was it the world was over
25:06

25:06 uh and then they came back down in 2019
25:08

25:08 was pretty good uh and then you know
25:12

25:12 2020 was what it was um but you know the
25:16

25:16 FED pumping all that money into the
25:17

25:17 system was definitely the problem so as
25:19

25:19 the FED is raising rates MH they’re
25:23

25:23 they’re they’re trying to remove money
25:25

25:25 supply okay from the economy that’s
25:27

25:27 that’s the whole sit situation that
25:29

25:29 makes sense um that’s that’s it there’s
25:31

25:31 too much money out there chasing too few
25:34

25:34 goods so they got to get money out of
25:35

25:35 the out of the equation you know I’m
25:37

25:37 curious and not to predict anything but
25:40

25:40 we’ve been in my opinion in a sellers
25:42

25:42 market for so long yeah like we don’t
25:45

25:45 even know what that that’s that’s so
25:47

25:47 normal that nobody talks about a sell’s
25:49

25:49 market or a buyer’s market yeah you know
25:51

25:51 I have some stories that I’ve heard
25:53

25:53 where you try to buy something and
25:55

25:55 there’s not enough you know real estate
25:57

25:57 or you go to auction when like during a
25:59

25:59 recession yeah and you can’t sell
26:01

26:01 anything because people don’t have the
26:03

26:03 money right so the price just spirals
26:05

26:05 downward um you know cash is King
26:09

26:09 sometimes but uh but back to what we
26:11

26:11 were talking about with inflation
26:13

26:13 because I did want to make a point you
26:14

26:14 were talking about inflation that’s why
26:16

26:16 real estate is so great yeah I mean I I
26:19

26:19 inflation is hedged a lot by real estate
26:22

26:22 Investments that’s right um unless you
26:24

26:24 have like a Walgreens with like 50 years
26:26

26:26 left that are fixed or whatever and even
26:28

26:28 if it is at the end of 50 years it’s
26:30

26:30 fine but that’s like having a bond but
26:31

26:31 if you have most real estate especially
26:33

26:33 residential adjust if it’s Airbnb it
26:36

26:36 adjust every you know every time you
26:38

26:38 rent it out hotels every day you know
26:41

26:41 rent rent apartment buildings every year
26:43

26:43 usually because it’s one year leases and
26:46

26:46 Commercial it’s like five to 15 year
26:47

26:47 leases so yeah so you said something
26:50

26:50 earlier that I wanted to go back on um
26:53

26:53 we’ve seen these Cycles before and the
26:55

26:55 one thing that I learned from the last
26:57

26:57 cycle you know when everything started
26:59

26:59 2008 2009 you know that that that lasted
27:02

27:02 about a year and a half You could argue
27:04

27:04 we’re really close to being a year into
27:07

27:07 this new cycle now um maybe even a
27:10

27:10 little bit
27:11

27:11 more what I learned through that and
27:14

27:14 what I’ve seen through the years is it
27:15

27:15 always comes back so even if real estate
27:18

27:18 dips some even for people that bought in
27:20

27:20 April and May of 20122 these homes are
27:23

27:23 not worth today what they were worth
27:25

27:25 when they bought them a year ago you
27:28

27:28 forward two or three or four years from
27:30

27:30 now they’re going to be just fine things
27:32

27:32 come back you know the stock market um
27:35

27:35 people’s portfolios I remember talking
27:38

27:38 to a lot of people who are really upset
27:40

27:40 my 401k is a 201k now or a 101k and you
27:43

27:43 know I’ve lost hundreds of thousands of
27:45

27:45 dollars if not millions of dollars of
27:46

27:46 value in my stock portfolio it always
27:49

27:49 comes back right if you as an individual
27:52

27:52 as a family as a business can retain
27:56

27:56 enough Capital to get yourself through
27:59

27:59 however long those periods are one year
28:01

28:01 two years whatever it is everything will
28:04

28:04 come back I mean having reserves or
28:06

28:06 having cash in the bank to keep you
28:08

28:08 afloat during times like that I mean I
28:10

28:10 also talk a little bit about um low
28:13

28:13 leverage yeah but the thing with low
28:14

28:14 leverage and it’s great I think having
28:16

28:16 lower leverage tends to be a little bit
28:18

28:18 safer is that not everybody could just
28:21

28:21 you know pay off 50% of their loan or
28:23

28:23 whatever so having that Nest Egg to keep
28:26

28:26 you afloat during those times is when
28:28

28:28 you don’t want to get caught in the
28:29

28:29 storm no and you also want to you know
28:31

28:31 they talk about dry powder a lot right
28:33

28:33 like if you’re a real estate investor
28:35

28:35 the best time to buy is in a recession
28:37

28:37 by low yeah you know what I mean so like
28:40

28:40 being prepared for those times um and
28:43

28:43 not getting caught in the fomo when
28:45

28:45 everything is going bananas um and
28:47

28:47 having to buy right then and doing all
28:49

28:49 of that being methodical being prepared
28:52

28:52 um that’s how you get through the bad
28:54

28:54 times that’s how you create longevity
28:57

28:57 you know you know for my company we we
29:00

29:00 practiced that you know 20 and
29:03

29:03 21 uh were the greatest years in the
29:06

29:06 history of the mortgage industry they’ll
29:08

29:08 never be repeated well maybe you
29:09

29:09 shouldn’t ever say ever but really uh
29:12

29:12 like oh because the rates are low rates
29:14

29:14 rates were 2 and a half% I mean you know
29:16

29:16 it was it was
29:18

29:18 the it was the greatest time ever yeah
29:21

29:21 um and there was a lot of people out
29:23

29:23 there that spent all of that money
29:25

29:25 thinking that it was never going to end
29:27

29:27 um we kept a lot of money in the company
29:31

29:31 you know as a loan officer actually
29:33

29:33 those first two years I brought home
29:35

29:35 less money than I’d brought home in 10
29:38

29:38 or 12 years wow um yeah because I kept
29:41

29:41 it all in the company yeah yeah and now
29:44

29:44 we’re going through a rough time but
29:46

29:46 we’re going to weather through it we’ve
29:47

29:47 got enough Capital to get us through you
29:50

29:50 know and just like everybody else we’ve
29:51

29:51 had to we’ve had to make tough decisions
29:53

29:53 and there’s certain things that we’ve
29:54

29:54 had to do but our doors are still open
29:56

29:56 and there’s mortgage companies closing
29:57

29:57 every single day yeah um you know and
30:00

30:00 and we’re in a position that we could
30:02

30:02 look to acquire um those companies uh or
30:06

30:06 if if they completely fall out and loan
30:08

30:08 officers need to come over we’re we’re
30:10

30:10 in a position to be able to to to bring
30:11

30:11 people on for that right okay interest
30:14

30:14 that’s great do you have a favorite loan
30:17

30:17 that you
30:18

30:18 funded or are they all similar because
30:20

30:20 you got to be there’s there’s there’s
30:22

30:22 some that stick out um definitely
30:26

30:26 Through The Years customer names stick
30:28

30:28 out um I don’t have one specific
30:32

30:32 favorite loan but as a loan officer the
30:34

30:34 loans that’s that you save that that
30:37

30:37 someone’s in a in a bad spot they’re
30:39

30:39 closing in a week or two current lender
30:42

30:42 can’t do it for whatever reason you got
30:44

30:44 to step in and save the day um that’s to
30:48

30:48 me that’s a high like no other yeah you
30:51

30:51 know that is that’s that’s the
30:53

30:53 adrenaline rush
30:56

30:56 um working working with celebrities and
30:58

30:58 I’ve worked with a lot uh actors
31:01

31:01 directors
31:03

31:03 coaches um working with working with
31:06

31:06 high-profile people is always a lot of
31:09

31:09 fun um getting to know them um some are
31:13

31:13 awesome yeah uh and really cool and I’ve
31:16

31:16 always liked getting to know uh
31:20

31:20 high-profile people and high net worth
31:23

31:23 people how are they doing things what
31:24

31:24 are they looking at how do they manage
31:25

31:25 their money how are they structured yeah
31:28

31:28 you know and a lot of it’s funny I mean
31:30

31:30 you you see a lot of these people and
31:32

31:32 and they’re kind of like the rest of us
31:35

31:35 you know they don’t know what they’re
31:36

31:36 doing and they don’t have it all figured
31:38

31:38 out um and then there’s others that have
31:40

31:40 amazing teams of people that keep them
31:43

31:43 keep them protected and keep them
31:44

31:44 structured I couldn’t say that there’s
31:46

31:46 just one favorite loan um there’s
31:49

31:49 favorite clients yeah well that makes
31:51

31:51 sense and you’re getting to know people
31:53

31:53 I think that that’s part of the I don’t
31:55

31:55 know I something cuz since I’m not in
31:57

31:57 the business I don’t it’s not all check
31:59

31:59 marks you know there’s so much gray and
32:02

32:02 like we were talking about earlier you
32:04

32:04 can have one company that’ll do aone
32:06

32:06 that two or three other companies won’t
32:08

32:08 right you have guidelines right but it’s
32:10

32:10 not just check the box it is how do you
32:13

32:13 interpret the guideline and are you
32:15

32:15 meeting the guideline um and that’s you
32:18

32:18 know we always say the mortgage industry
32:20

32:20 is not black and white and if you can’t
32:21

32:21 live in the gray you shouldn’t be in the
32:23

32:23 mortgage business right um yeah you know
32:26

32:26 it’s really a how do you interpret
32:28

32:28 things and can you sell what you’re
32:30

32:30 interpreting to a third party yeah okay
32:33

32:33 interesting so it really it takes
32:35

32:35 creativity and intuition yeah that was
32:37

32:37 another question I wanted to know
32:39

32:39 because just because you know I use
32:41

32:41 Intuition or Brokers or you know
32:43

32:43 investors you know it’s you sometimes
32:46

32:46 have to have a feel of the market of how
32:48

32:48 much you can push it what rents will be
32:49

32:49 when you’re done with a construction
32:50

32:50 project I didn’t know how intuition
32:53

32:53 plays in being alone oh yeah certainly
32:56

32:56 like if you’re looking at the this weird
32:57

32:57 deal or this tough deal you know you’re
32:60

32:60 definitely asking the question do I
33:01

33:01 think this guy’s or this lady is going
33:03

33:03 to pay this mortgage right like if I get
33:06

33:06 stuck holding this loan are they going
33:08

33:08 to make the payments on right okay um
33:11

33:11 and that that definitely plays into it
33:13

33:13 you know and and that’ll definitely kind
33:15

33:15 of sway where in the gray you are and
33:18

33:18 how you’re interpreting a guideline um
33:22

33:22 so so I’m going to ask uh just because I
33:26

33:26 feel like it’s it’s relevant what states
33:29

33:29 do you lend in and because I know you I
33:32

33:32 don’t know what the difference is I
33:33

33:33 don’t know how you pick states to expand
33:34

33:34 in I know you’re you can loan in 48
33:37

33:37 states is I think right no
33:40

33:40 I no no no so we’re licensed obviously
33:42

33:42 in Texas okay uh New Mexico Colorado
33:46

33:46 Oklahoma Arkansas Tennessee Florida uh
33:51

33:51 Alabama and uh currently working on
33:54

33:54 Washington State and uh California but
33:57

33:57 do you loan in all those States or are
33:59

33:59 you starting up in those uh yeah well we
34:01

34:01 don’t Loan in Washington and California
34:03

34:03 yet cuz we’re not licensed there but we
34:04

34:04 do lend in all the other states that I
34:06

34:06 mentioned what how do you pick which
34:08

34:08 state to go to um some is by necessity
34:11

34:11 from what the loan officers want some is
34:13

34:13 some is by just like I just want to be
34:16

34:16 in Colorado right right so that was the
34:18

34:18 first state outside of Texas that we got
34:20

34:20 licensed in um you know so it’s it’s you
34:24

34:24 kind of weigh like who do you want to
34:26

34:26 attract
34:28

34:28 what do the people that you currently
34:29

34:29 have here what do they need
34:31

34:31 M what places are business friendly
34:34

34:34 right um you know there’s some states
34:35

34:35 out there that that we probably won’t
34:38

34:38 ever get licensed in okay um some of
34:40

34:40 those in the Northeast that make things
34:42

34:42 kind of difficult yeah um you know so
34:45

34:45 it’s you kind of have to balance all
34:46

34:46 that plus every state that you’re
34:48

34:48 licensed in uh you have to follow their
34:50

34:50 rules so you’ve got to take another test
34:53

34:53 you’ve got to provide certain
34:54

34:54 documentation you know once we’re
34:56

34:56 licensed in Wasington Wasington state
34:57

34:57 we’re going to have to file quarterly
34:59

34:59 taxes in the state of Washington um you
35:01

35:01 know so there’s a lot of stuff
35:03

35:03 California’s got a ton of regulations so
35:05

35:05 a lot of people don’t want to be
35:06

35:06 licensed in California because it’s not
35:08

35:08 worth the time or the headache um you
35:11

35:11 know so it’s it’s it’s kind of a balance
35:13

35:13 of all of those things okay interesting
35:16

35:16 what advice would you give to uh someone
35:19

35:19 who wanted to invest in real estate
35:22

35:22 don’t wait don’t wait everybody’s
35:25

35:25 worried about interest rates and that’s
35:27

35:27 always the thing I’m going to wait till
35:29

35:29 rates come down yeah or I’m going to
35:30

35:30 wait till prices come down the fact is
35:34

35:34 they work against each other as rates go
35:36

35:36 down prices go up because demand goes up
35:39

35:39 don’t wait don’t try to time the market
35:41

35:41 I I heard a really good saying and I’m
35:43

35:43 I’m stealing it from somebody and I I
35:44

35:44 don’t remember where I saw it or who
35:46

35:46 said it but um it’s not timing the
35:48

35:48 market it’s time in the market right you
35:52

35:52 buy something today 10 years from now
35:54

35:54 you’re going to be great you buy
35:56

35:56 something
35:57

35:57 two years from now you’re going to say I
36:00

36:00 wish I would have bought two years ago
36:02

36:02 everybody that didn’t buy in 2018 and
36:05

36:05 2019 and bought in 20 and 21 and even
36:08

36:08 the beginning of 22 wish they would have
36:10

36:10 bought earlier yeah right you’ll never
36:13

36:13 time the market don’t worry about rates
36:16

36:16 you can always refinance rates will come
36:18

36:18 down will they be two and a half% again
36:20

36:20 no right you know are they going to get
36:22

36:22 into the fours again sure could they get
36:25

36:25 into the threes again I think so yeah um
36:28

36:28 you know so it’s it’s don’t wait yeah I
36:31

36:31 love watching your uh your social media
36:34

36:34 because you do have you know you have
36:36

36:36 thoughts on inflation or you you know
36:38

36:38 you’re watching everything you have like
36:40

36:40 some interesting insights yeah so thank
36:42

36:42 you I mean it just be Max Leman L EA M
36:46

36:46 an um for people that want to check you
36:49

36:49 out uh but it it’s fun it’s nice to
36:51

36:51 watch and you’re so personable that like
36:53

36:53 just it’s fun to watch you maybe because
36:55

36:55 I’ve known you for too long you know
36:56

36:56 it’s funny it’s super it’s super
36:58

36:58 uncomfortable just sitting there talking
36:59

36:59 to a camera in my b-roll I finally
37:01

37:01 figured out I don’t have to start and
37:02

37:02 stop it I could just go and then cut it
37:04

37:04 down I got some videos to show you about
37:06

37:06 that it’s funny uh you know there’s
37:08

37:08 there’s a lot there’s a lot of throwing
37:10

37:10 things and cursing when I mess up and
37:11

37:11 then uh oh
37:13

37:13 really uh I have some b-roll to show you
37:15

37:15 uh it’s pretty funny but you
37:18

37:18 know people said they want to hear from
37:20

37:20 me you know I guess I have I have things
37:23

37:23 to say and uh you know I’m fortunate
37:26

37:26 enough that have enough people people
37:27

37:27 that that care about what I have to say
37:28

37:28 so I try to put out things that are
37:30

37:30 useful um for real estate agents for
37:33

37:33 loan officers for buyers um you know so
37:37

37:37 I’ve started doing that and I need to
37:38

37:38 get better at it your insights are very
37:41

37:41 interesting and they’re usually pretty
37:42

37:42 accurate with your predictions I think
37:45

37:45 most most times the ones I’ve seen well
37:47

37:47 you know uh I’m still I think I think my
37:49

37:49 last my latest prediction was at the end
37:51

37:51 of end of last year uh I said I thought
37:54

37:54 rates would be uh kind of in the mid
37:56

37:56 fives by end of q1 into of Q2 um I I I I
38:01

38:01 guess I technically still have some time
38:03

38:03 to get that one right but it’s not
38:04

38:04 looking not
38:06

38:06 likely what are some misconceptions
38:08

38:08 because this is like let’s say I wanted
38:09

38:09 to get alone maybe I’m not the right
38:12

38:12 person but let’s say somebody wanted to
38:14

38:14 get a loan yeah what misconceptions
38:17

38:17 might they not realize you know like so
38:20

38:20 this is a great question self-employment
38:22

38:22 well so there there’s a lot um the
38:25

38:25 biggest misconception is that rate is
38:28

38:28 the most important thing consumers care
38:32

38:32 about interest rate as they should but
38:34

38:34 there is too much focus in this world
38:37

38:37 about interest rate there are so many
38:40

38:40 factors that go into the interest rate
38:42

38:42 that when a consumer says I’m just going
38:44

38:44 to call around and whoever gives me the
38:45

38:45 best rate
38:46

38:46 wins that’s problematic because until
38:49

38:49 you fill out an application until you
38:51

38:51 turn in all of your documents you don’t
38:54

38:54 know necessarily what your rate’s going
38:55

38:55 to be you know Fanny May recently in
38:58

38:58 implemented a a a rate adjuster um we
39:01

39:01 call them lone level price adjustments
39:03

39:03 but it’s basically a rate adjuster if
39:04

39:04 your debt to income ratio is over
39:07

39:07 40% your rate gets worse now how am I
39:11

39:11 going to tell you what your rate can be
39:13

39:13 I can give you an idea of what it’s
39:15

39:15 going to be but if I don’t have your
39:17

39:17 credit score because that matters if I
39:19

39:19 don’t know the property address because
39:21

39:21 taxes and insurance matter if I don’t
39:24

39:24 know all the income that I can use for
39:25

39:25 you how do I know that I’m quoting you a
39:27

39:27 rate now let’s say that we’re working
39:30

39:30 together right and I’ve got all this
39:31

39:31 information I’ve given you a rate quote
39:34

39:34 um you want to shop it around you call
39:36

39:36 around well you’ll call ABC company and
39:39

39:39 they might price it at a 780 credit
39:41

39:41 score with a 40 or less DTI but in fact
39:44

39:44 your credit score is a 720 and your debt
39:46

39:46 to income ratio is 43% right
39:50

39:50 uh you don’t you’re not getting an
39:53

39:53 apples TOA comparison I’m not saying
39:56

39:56 don’t rate shop you absolutely should
39:57

39:57 but there is more to it than just
39:59

39:59 throwing out a number in addition to
40:01

40:01 that what are you paying for that rate
40:03

40:03 you know Quicken is really good about
40:06

40:06 saying we have the best rate and we have
40:08

40:08 tons of customers that will show uh
40:11

40:11 estimates from them but then when you
40:12

40:12 get it yeah the rate’s lower but you’re
40:14

40:14 paying four or five or six points to get
40:17

40:17 that rate in which case well okay we can
40:19

40:19 do better than that but also you
40:21

40:21 shouldn’t pay that many points it
40:23

40:23 doesn’t like it you’ll never convince me
40:25

40:25 that paying four or five points makes
40:26

40:26 sense
40:27

40:27 one or two especially in today’s
40:30

40:30 environment um it’s not only just
40:34

40:34 getting the absolute lowest deal are you
40:37

40:37 working with a competent loan officer
40:39

40:39 and a competent competent company that’s
40:41

40:41 going to be able to help you actually
40:43

40:43 see this thing through to the end now I
40:46

40:46 like to tell customers getting a loan
40:47

40:47 sucks it just sucks less with us um
40:50

40:50 which is true I mean you do have to give
40:52

40:52 over a lot of documentation and there’s
40:54

40:54 going to be a lot of back and forth and
40:56

40:56 now that your debt to income ratio
40:58

40:58 matters for the rate it it’s it’s going
41:00

41:00 to be even less fun right most people
41:03

41:03 don’t know what they pay their
41:05

41:05 CPA most people don’t know what they
41:07

41:07 play their financial ADV their financial
41:08

41:08 plan or their financial advisor um
41:11

41:11 people get too focused on interest rate
41:14

41:14 and that’s
41:15

41:15 it what is the best package for you
41:18

41:18 right do you need to do an FHA loan
41:20

41:20 you’re a veteran does that mean that a
41:22

41:22 VA loan is the best way to go maybe
41:25

41:25 maybe not what about a conventional own
41:28

41:28 should you put less down should you put
41:29

41:29 more down there’s so many factors that
41:32

41:32 go into it you need to work with a very
41:34

41:34 well qualified competent technician of a
41:36

41:36 loan officer that can show you all of
41:38

41:38 your options and really lay out a plan
41:41

41:41 versus where am I getting the absolute
41:43

41:43 lowest rate I think that the part of
41:45

41:45 what stemmed from this question was and
41:48

41:48 maybe it’s my own fears when when you’re
41:50

41:50 in
41:51

41:51 escrow having somebody who’s going to
41:54

41:54 take you to the Finish Line that’s right
41:56

41:56 you could have everything all your ducks
41:58

41:58 in a row your inspections fine there’s
41:60

41:60 no problems with the you know with
42:02

42:02 anything with the property and now the
42:03

42:03 financing right and you need to have
42:05

42:05 somebody on your team that is going to
42:07

42:07 carry you to the finish line and that’s
42:10

42:10 where you know it’s it makes anybody
42:12

42:12 would make anybody nervous you of course
42:14

42:14 and like you said self-employed right
42:15

42:15 like I could go through a million
42:17

42:17 different things how many businesses do
42:19

42:19 you have how many business tax returns
42:20

42:20 do you have are they flow through
42:21

42:21 entities are they a C Corp are you 100%
42:23

42:23 owner of the C Corp or not that’s going
42:25

42:25 to make a difference are you using
42:26

42:26 business funds to close or for reserves
42:28

42:28 okay well then we need to go through the
42:29

42:29 business statements and make sure the
42:31

42:31 company can uh support using those funds
42:34

42:34 and that the business won’t go out right
42:36

42:36 you know are you are you taking
42:38

42:38 distributions and Reporting those to the
42:40

42:40 IRS if not uh we have to do liquidity
42:42

42:42 tests for there is a gajillion different
42:45

42:45 things that go on and good loan officer
42:48

42:48 I mean that’s like 15 in 30 seconds
42:50

42:50 right I mean you’ve got to be working
42:52

42:52 with a true professional that
42:54

42:54 understands exactly what they’re looking
42:56

42:56 at I talked to a young lady today um who
42:59

42:59 is a
43:01

43:01 physician uh and she’s not paid just a
43:05

43:05 normal hourly W she’s got differentials
43:08

43:08 she’s got all sorts of different things
43:10

43:10 um and she she’s got some strict some
43:13

43:13 some fixed pay and some variable pay and
43:15

43:15 she said this other company that she’s
43:16

43:16 been talking to they’ve been two weeks
43:18

43:18 trying to figure it out I told her what
43:21

43:21 her base income’s going to be in the
43:23

43:23 first about three minutes of the phone
43:25

43:25 call um like you have to know you have
43:28

43:28 to be experienced you have to know what
43:30

43:30 you’re doing right you know you have to
43:32

43:32 know what you’re doing and for loan
43:33

43:33 officers out there that haven’t been
43:35

43:35 doing it for a long time I recommend
43:37

43:37 that they team up with a loan officer
43:39

43:39 that’s been doing it a long time join
43:41

43:41 that team get a mentor get people to
43:44

43:44 help you the only way to learn is to do
43:46

43:46 yeah and with other people together you
43:48

43:48 learn from other people’s experience I
43:49

43:49 think that I’ve seen that work really
43:52

43:52 well in so many different you know you
43:54

43:54 have like one of my friends is a broker
43:56

43:56 and La always worked with somebody who’s
43:58

43:58 older experienced and now he’s one of
43:59

43:59 the biggest brokers in LA and it’s just
44:02

44:02 it’s like I could see his formula and
44:04

44:04 sometimes You’ see two people they they
44:06

44:06 personality wise total not mismatch no
44:09

44:09 yeah but as a team they really
44:11

44:11 complimented each other that’s right um
44:13

44:13 that’s right and that’s what we try to
44:14

44:14 do here you know honestly like our big
44:16

44:16 thing is we we have what we call study
44:18

44:18 hall uh every week and it’s not
44:19

44:19 mandatory but all the loan officers get
44:21

44:21 on and and I’ll generally kind of give a
44:22

44:22 state of what we’re seeing this week and
44:24

44:24 what’s going on and then it’s like let’s
44:26

44:26 what TR are you having what wins did you
44:28

44:28 have um you know people be like hey I’m
44:31

44:31 working on this and I can’t figure this
44:32

44:32 out or hey I’m messed up on this thing
44:34

44:34 and this is what I learned from that
44:36

44:36 situation you know I try to be um I for
44:41

44:41 my loan officers at this company I am
44:44

44:44 here for them to to to help bounce
44:46

44:46 things off of and figure things out and
44:48

44:48 work through problems and and how do you
44:51

44:51 structure this and put the pieces of the
44:52

44:52 puzzle together right right okay it’s
44:55

44:55 interesting other things people don’t
44:57

44:57 realize that they need to have you know
44:58

44:58 when they’re going to look at a house
44:59

44:59 and they’re going to get an FHA mold
45:01

45:01 issues structural issues what other kind
45:03

45:03 of issues are so like that you will not
45:06

45:06 get a certain type of loan if you’re not
45:08

45:08 100% on you know the thing is is at the
45:11

45:11 end of the day when you look at it VA
45:13

45:13 specifically is really strict on you
45:14

45:14 have to have a wood destroying insect
45:16

45:16 report okay um there cannot be any
45:18

45:18 conducive conditions on that report if
45:20

45:20 there are any conducive conditions um
45:23

45:23 they have to be remedied but again it
45:25

45:25 comes down who was the inspector that
45:27

45:27 looked at it you know technically wood
45:30

45:30 touching the house is a conducive
45:31

45:31 condition uh is the inspector going to
45:34

45:34 call that out right are they not um you
45:37

45:37 know at the end of the day though like
45:39

45:39 for loans across the board uh they the
45:42

45:42 house has to be safe sound and habitable
45:45

45:45 that’s the like FHA that’s FHA
45:48

45:48 conventional VA the house has to be safe
45:50

45:50 sound and habitable if you can see
45:52

45:52 daylight through the middle of the wall
45:55

45:55 that’s going to be a problem problem you
45:56

45:56 know if you can see that water’s coming
45:59

45:59 in through the roof that’s going to be a
46:02

46:02 problem well I’m wondering that question
46:04

46:04 because sometimes for structural issues
46:07

46:07 you know it could be $20,000 that you
46:10

46:10 have to come out out of pocket just to
46:11

46:11 close that’s right that’s right you know
46:13

46:13 if and you know an appraiser might go in
46:15

46:15 there and see a lot of settlement and
46:17

46:17 cracks and the house has shifted a
46:18

46:18 little bit they might call for a
46:20

46:20 structural engineer to come out there
46:21

46:21 and then the engineer is going to say
46:22

46:22 yeah no it’s fine or no it’s not you
46:25

46:25 have to do
46:27

46:27 XYZ that’s just a thing that happens but
46:29

46:29 that’s why having a really good real
46:32

46:32 estate agent is so so important yeah you
46:35

46:35 know just like having a really good loan
46:37

46:37 officer that’s a technician and can get
46:38

46:38 you through all of it is important a
46:42

46:42 having a really qualified good real
46:45

46:45 estate agent is also just as important
46:47

46:47 because they’re going to be able to see
46:48

46:48 a lot of that stuff going into it before
46:50

46:50 you start spending money on earnest
46:52

46:52 money and option money and appraisals
46:53

46:53 and inspections and all of that they’re
46:55

46:55 going to be able to look at it be like I
46:57

46:57 don’t know like maybe you have this
46:59

46:59 issue maybe you don’t and really guide
47:01

47:01 you through to make the appropriate
47:03

47:03 decisions well it’s like your team it’s
47:05

47:05 the buyer team you know it’s a team of
47:07

47:07 experts that kind of tell them and you
47:09

47:09 know Brokers aren’t usually responsible
47:11

47:11 for that but somebody who’s got the
47:13

47:13 experience would be able to would be
47:15

47:15 able to see that and even inspectors
47:17

47:17 most of them their contracts when you
47:19

47:19 hire them says they wave you know all
47:23

47:23 anything that they mess up on they’re
47:24

47:24 not responsible for so technically I
47:26

47:26 mean they could just miss everything
47:28

47:28 right and you have no recourse right so
47:31

47:31 yeah I mean having the uh a good broker
47:33

47:33 knowing what to look for I ask everybody
47:36

47:36 these wrapup questions it’s what are
47:38

47:38 your three key daily Habits Like do you
47:41

47:41 have habits or I have some uh I I get up
47:47

47:47 um that’s
47:49

47:49 enough I hope so I wake up uh no you
47:52

47:52 know first thing first thing I do in the
47:53

47:53 morning uh every morning I I grab my
47:56

47:56 phone I start looking at the news um
47:58

47:58 what’s going on in the world what’s
47:59

47:59 going on in the financial industry um I
48:02

48:02 go to the gym I think it’s really really
48:04

48:04 important for me uh you know I’m I’m not
48:07

48:07 the most athletic guy but being being in
48:09

48:09 the gym for that one hour every day
48:11

48:11 where I can only focus on the task at
48:13

48:13 hand and I’m not thinking about all the
48:15

48:15 outside noise in the world around me uh
48:17

48:17 really that’s my biggest stress relief
48:23

48:23 um you know and then when when you’re in
48:26

48:26 the mortgage business you don’t know
48:27

48:27 what the days are going to bring you
48:29

48:29 know um I may think I know what I’m
48:31

48:31 going to do today and and it gets
48:33

48:33 completely thrown off course um but I
48:37

48:37 would say reading reading the news
48:40

48:40 physically taking care of myself MH and
48:43

48:43 having time with my family every day
48:46

48:46 okay those are your three key daily
48:48

48:48 habits yeah I think that’s great I think
48:50

48:50 it’s so healthy I mean having a I’m
48:53

48:53 smiling because I’m just not good at it
48:54

48:54 but having like a work life balance it
48:58

48:58 you know I’m not great at it I’ve been
48:59

48:59 getting better um if there’s any
49:03

49:03 blessings in the slow times when things
49:04

49:04 aren’t great it’s that you have more
49:06

49:06 time to kind of realize I need to focus
49:09

49:09 more on my family and I need to be
49:10

49:10 around more and as much as this last
49:13

49:13 seven eight months has not been fun
49:15

49:15 work-wise I’ve definitely realized how
49:19

49:19 much more time I should have been
49:20

49:20 spending with my family prior to it and
49:22

49:22 I’ve really tried to make that a
49:23

49:23 priority that’s super interesting well
49:26

49:26 well you have kids and you think about
49:28

49:28 the future the plan I mean do you have
49:32

49:32 like a legacy that you want to leave
49:34

49:34 from your business like what what do you
49:36

49:36 love to give to the
49:38

49:38 world what do I love to give to the
49:41

49:41 world you’re hiring people you’re
49:42

49:42 training them and you’re giving them you
49:45

49:45 know I want to I want to help people be
49:48

49:48 great I’m not necessarily building this
49:51

49:51 business to leave to my children I don’t
49:52

49:52 know if my kids are going to want to be
49:53

49:53 in the mortgage business you know right
49:55

49:55 now now my my daughter wants to be a
49:58

49:58 princess that rides
50:00

50:00 unicorns and my son wants to wants to be
50:03

50:03 a coder you know he’s super into video
50:05

50:05 games I don’t know what they want to do
50:07

50:07 um what I want to leave on the what I
50:09

50:09 want to leave what do I want my legacy
50:10

50:10 to be I want when I’m gone I want people
50:13

50:13 to think he helped people he helped me
50:16

50:16 he helped me grow um from the business
50:20

50:20 perspective I would love to have a
50:22

50:22 legacy in the mortgage business is you
50:24

50:24 know this guy was the top one of the top
50:27

50:27 loan officers in the nation for a long
50:29

50:29 time and then he created a company that
50:31

50:31 became one of the best companies maybe
50:34

50:34 not the number one company and I don’t
50:37

50:37 I’m not looking to do I’m not looking to
50:38

50:38 be the biggest company by volume I just
50:41

50:41 want to be the best company um did I
50:44

50:44 create the best company out there where
50:46

50:46 loan officers and operations people can
50:49

50:49 come together at a place that they want
50:51

50:51 to work they believe in the culture they
50:54

50:54 believe in each other they’re all vying
50:55

50:55 for this the same goal uh and did I make
50:58

50:58 them better can people come here and
51:01

51:01 learn and become a better processor loan
51:05

51:05 officer underwriter than when they got
51:07

51:07 here and maybe people don’t stay there
51:09

51:09 for their whole career but can they look
51:10

51:10 back and say man the best place I ever
51:12

51:12 worked and the where I learned the most
51:15

51:15 was at Lone people yeah that’s that’s
51:17

51:17 what I want yeah that’s special well Max
51:20

51:20 I look forward to having dinner with you
51:21

51:21 tonight I’m hungry me too awesome man
51:26

51:26 thanks for uh thanks for coming and
51:27

51:27 doing this man I appreciate it it’s my
51:29

51:29 pleasure for sure hey guys thanks for
51:31

51:31 watching my video I really like making
51:33

51:33 these if this video added value to your
51:34

51:34 real estate thinking forward it to
51:36

51:36 somebody who you think it could help I
51:38

51:38 have a newsletter that goes out about
51:39

51:39 once a month come to my website signant
51:42

51:42 investments.com s NE investments.com

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